This will be my next step, ill borrow a hanna ph checker. I will recalibrate it before use. Lets see what happens, From there ill figure out if i need to buy a new probe or a different PH meter.
I appreciate all the help, its is amazing to see the amount of people willing to help, i will not sweat it about the boron then, but i will correct it at some point as well as all the other deficiencies i had in the icp test, now im more concerned about PH. Thanks for all you have done for us newbies in 20 years.
Thanks for all the input and all the help notifying me about the deficiencies in the icp test. I will take care of those. I am currently reading about the different programs available for trace elements.
No need to google about boron. I am totally familiar with the issue, and googling "boron and pH in a reef aquarium" turns up my article as the first hit.
BORON IS NOT EVER A CAUSE of low pH. pH is determined mathematically by carbonate alkalinity and CO2. Boron is not in the determination.
Borate does contribute a small amount to reducing the size of the daily pH swing by providing buffering against addition and subtraction of CO2 impacting pH.
As to the trace elements, letting them decline (which is a reasonable idea for dinos) likely reduced photosynthesis in various organisms (including dinos) that needed them, and hence the pH dropped because CO2 consumption declined.
It is NOT because the trace elements directly impact pH.
In this article I go into great chemical depth of the effect of borate on pH:
Chemistry And The Aquarium: Boron In A Reef Tank
This article also discusses the sources and sinks for boron in reef tanks, and shows that while typical tanks may be slightly depleted in boron with respect to natural levels, most are not so significantly depleted that any correction is required. Nevertheless, how to test for and supplement...reefs.com
Randy, in no less than three responses, I specifically said that the issue is almost absolutely certain that it's either their probe or test kit, as from my own experience, I cannot see any situation where they could possibly be doing all of these positive things to elevate their PH, yet only achieving 7.8, it makes no sense at all.
When they gets a new probe/recalibrates they will see this.
If this isn't the case, the room would have to be so high in CO2 that it would be practically unbreathable.
My partner and I live in a two bedroom apartment with two cats and the windows shut 80% of the time, yet scrubbing alone gets me to 8.3, with an algae reactor I consistently peak over 8.45.
My question on elements was loosely related and more to do with the unstable nature of his PH (large swings), which is exactly where Boron can support, in the stability, or buffering as you stated.
Your own papers say as such, and likewise Triton say the same, which was my original source of information.
Whilst I didn't fully appreciate that no Boron wouldn't contribute to low PH, but more specifically just to the stability of such, it doesn't get away from the fact that their elements are not in great shape.
Many of the elements on their ICP are important to the reef, and a lot are zero or very low.
Lets not confused two completely separate things.
I believe my advise was good, quote:
Nowhere here did I say anything about low PH and elements, but just good general advise about their elements based on the ICP results.
For reference, here are your own quotes and Triton's:
I love the fact that someone with actual understanding of this stuff and as passionate as you, are part of the community, but you sometimes jump down peoples throat, and do not always read what has been written.
If there is a mouse breathing in your room, we have other issues
Seriously, though, EPA-NASA did a study on this a while back and found that--in tightly sealed rooms--having 5 medium-sized houseplants had a positive impact on CO2 levels. I can't find that study any more, but another recent study showed that over the course of 6 hours in a tightly sealed room with ample light, several house plants were able to scrub about 500ppm of CO2 from the air. That said, unless the room is sealed for large amounts of time, it's more likely that your front door opening and normal AC cycling/exchanges will have a much larger, positive impact on your tank's pH than house plants.Yes, I had the same issue (and you helped me through it). Solving the high indoor CO2 levels solved my pH issues. (went from 7.8 to 8.2). CO2 has a huge impact on pH, and if you're interested in calculating it, you can grab a CO2 meter from Amazon, record the result, and then plug in those readings here for a ballpark. FYSA, normal CO2 levels with adequate home air exchange are around 500-600. Elevated levels in tightly sealed homes are around 1,000. My condo was 1,400.
If CO2 is high enough, it's absolutely possible that pH sits at 7.8, even with a scrubber. I am the case study on that. My condo was at 1400ppm CO2. The difference between that and the level it is now, 500ppm, had a .4 impact on my pH. So from 7.8 to 8.2.
How will Temperature affect acidity? Temperature is not adding or using molecules...only adding or lessening the ability to make molecular bonds.
If there is a mouse breathing in your room, we have other issues
Yes, I had the same issue (and you helped me through it). Solving the high indoor CO2 levels solved my pH issues. (went from 7.8 to 8.2). CO2 has a huge impact on pH, and if you're interested in calculating it, you can grab a CO2 meter from Amazon, record the result, and then plug in those readings here for a ballpark. FYSA, normal CO2 levels with adequate home air exchange are around 500-600. Elevated levels in tightly sealed homes are around 1,000. My condo was 1,400.
If CO2 is high enough, it's absolutely possible that pH sits at 7.8, even with a scrubber. I am the case study on that. My condo was at 1400ppm CO2. The difference between that and the level it is now, 500ppm, had a .4 impact on my pH. So from 7.8 to 8.2.
Sounds like an issue with his A/C? Most houses that have proper A/C units shouldn’t run above 1000ppm....regardless of how many occupants dumping CO2 in the air. If it goes beyond 1000ppm i’d say ya need to looking into your unit because it isn’t properly doing its job.
If there is a mouse breathing in your room, we have other issues
Yes, I had the same issue (and you helped me through it). Solving the high indoor CO2 levels solved my pH issues. (went from 7.8 to 8.2). CO2 has a huge impact on pH, and if you're interested in calculating it, you can grab a CO2 meter from Amazon, record the result, and then plug in those readings here for a ballpark. FYSA, normal CO2 levels with adequate home air exchange are around 500-600. Elevated levels in tightly sealed homes are around 1,000. My condo was 1,400.
If CO2 is high enough, it's absolutely possible that pH sits at 7.8, even with a scrubber. I am the case study on that. My condo was at 1400ppm CO2. The difference between that and the level it is now, 500ppm, had a .4 impact on my pH. So from 7.8 to 8.2.
I cracked two windows (just enough to feel a slight draft if I put my hand over it), both in different rooms to make sure there was a slight amount of continuous air exchange. (and banned my roommate from cooking with our gas stove
) Now my CO2 sits at 500 ... this isn't practical for a lot of folks, but it's working very well for me, and the AC/heat doesn't come on a whole lot more than usual.
Mine does not either. I was originally looking into a fresh air exchanger for the house, but the cracked windows are having the same effect, so for now, that's good enough for me.
I was stating temperature does indeed play a role in the affect of PH. Is it enough to cause such a swing? Probably not...however, there are too many variables that can play into how CO2 is being consumed. Example...how much CO2 is actually in the home? Salinity, temp, lighting schedule etc.
