Getting new light... which one?

[NotFishyFishGuy]

You’ll have to start using a calcium chloride supplement every so often to keep up with coral and coralline algae growth (what makes our rocks turn purple). Something like this is good to have on hand to in order to make small adjustments to keep your calcium range in the “goldilocks zone”.

Another option until calcium demand becomes too great is a “reef salt” mix and a consistent water change schedule coupled with proper feeding amounts. When mixed with water, these salt mixes will have increased levels of alkalinity, calcium, magnesium and beneficial trace elements. One of my favorites is Tropic Marin as they tend to mix around 7-9 dkh depending on the exact mix you get, which is a pretty safe range. For example, this is what I would use on your setup if I were doing a 10% weekly water change (spread this out during the week if possible, it’ll keep your tank more stable and keep your inhabitants from being shocked by rapid water parameter changes):

Bio-ACTIF: Ca: 430-450 ppm, Mg: 1300-1350 ppm, Alk: 8-9 dKH, plus carbon dosing (gotta run a protein skimmer to benefit)

Some salt mixes, such as Red Sea can mix at 11dkh or higher, which is great for coral growth but can be more demanding to use as the tank has to be fed more to prevent burned coral tips and necrosis. The lesson here is to always make sure to check the specifications of a salt mix.

The red sea mix would probably work for e then since I already over feed lol

 

[NotFishyFishGuy]

What, how much and how often are you feeding your tank? Provide pictures if you can. Fish need very little food to thrive.

I feed a small pinch of pellets or a half a cube of shrimp a day. Here r pics

White lights and blu lights in the first pic and blue lights in the second

 

[PhreeByrd]

I might have missed it in the thread, but I didn't see mention of how long this tank has been set up. From the photos, it appears to be in the 6 month+/- range, and I wouldn't say it's 'bad'. There is some coralline growth on the rock, which is a positive sign. The reported test results also were not anything alarming, so I'm guessing that the OP is just seeing a period of uglies as the tank matures... but it's still not too bad.

A TDS meter is a must for checking your RO/DI water. Even color-changing DI resins are not a real reliable indicator of the purity of the product water -- the only way to be certain of your water quality is by checking the TDS regularly. And you want the purest possible water for your water changes and topoff water.

I doubt that lights are a big factor in aggravating the situation, but I agree that the AI lights are top notch, and I'm confident that new, better lights would not cause anything adverse to happen. If you want to grow corals, then you'll eventually want high-quality lights, so now is as good a time as any. Just the same, I have not found much reliable evidence that certain wavelengths of light (or deficient light sources) favor the growth of nuisance alga. If a poor-quality light grows algae well, then a high-quality light probably will grow it even better.

The algae will always be there -- that's a fact of life. The goal is to get to a point where it is not dominating. This means nutrient control/export and the establishment of a strong colony of competing microbial organisms. It does take time (sometimes years) to establish that bacterial population. There are bacterial additives and food sources (vinegar, sugar, and premade formulations like NOPOx) which many reefers have used with positive results. It's worth some research.

Regular, physical removal of the nuisance algae is usually extremely beneficial, because you're not only removing the pest, but along with it, the nutrients that it has consumed. When it has grown to the right level, siphon out all you can from everywhere you can reach. Try not to disturb the sand bed. Then top off the tank with new, pure saltwater. You might end up doing this 2-3 times per week for a while. Eventually, the algae will burn itself out, but this doesn't happen quickly. It will eventually happen as long as you practice good husbandry in other aspects.

 

[NotFishyFishGuy]

I might have missed it in the thread, but I didn't see mention of how long this tank has been set up. From the photos, it appears to be in the 6 month+/- range, and I wouldn't say it's 'bad'. There is some coralline growth on the rock, which is a positive sign. The reported test results also were not anything alarming, so I'm guessing that the OP is just seeing a period of uglies as the tank matures... but it's still not too bad.

A TDS meter is a must for checking your RO/DI water. Even color-changing DI resins are not a real reliable indicator of the purity of the product water -- the only way to be certain of your water quality is by checking the TDS regularly. And you want the purest possible water for your water changes and topoff water.

I doubt that lights are a big factor in aggravating the situation, but I agree that the AI lights are top notch, and I'm confident that new, better lights would not cause anything adverse to happen. If you want to grow corals, then you'll eventually want high-quality lights, so now is as good a time as any. Just the same, I have not found much reliable evidence that certain wavelengths of light (or deficient light sources) favor the growth of nuisance alga. If a poor-quality light grows algae well, then a high-quality light probably will grow it even better.

The algae will always be there -- that's a fact of life. The goal is to get to a point where it is not dominating. This means nutrient control/export and the establishment of a strong colony of competing microbial organisms. It does take time (sometimes years) to establish that bacterial population. There are bacterial additives and food sources (vinegar, sugar, and premade formulations like NOPOx) which many reefers have used with positive results. It's worth some research.

Regular, physical removal of the nuisance algae is usually extremely beneficial, because you're not only removing the pest, but along with it, the nutrients that it has consumed. When it has grown to the right level, siphon out all you can from everywhere you can reach. Try not to disturb the sand bed. Then top off the tank with new, pure saltwater. You might end up doing this 2-3 times per week for a while. Eventually, the algae will burn itself out, but this doesn't happen quickly. It will eventually happen as long as you practice good husbandry in other aspects.

So the tank has been running for 3 months. I will get a TDS meter. I actually don't have a ATO. I physicaly removed the algae yesterday morning and by afternoon it grew back. I removed the algae just now and we will see what happens later. I may get the AI prime since it can grow corals better and ill b able to use it in future tanks.

 

[PhreeByrd]

If the 'algae' is growing back that quickly, then it may not be a true algae at all. But if it can be easily removed from the glass or other surfaces, then I would still continue with that approach while researching to find out exactly what you're dealing with. You'll need to always have a good supply of replacement saltwater available.

 

[NotFishyFishGuy]

If the 'algae' is growing back that quickly, then it may not be a true algae at all. But if it can be easily removed from the glass or other surfaces, then I would still continue with that approach while researching to find out exactly what you're dealing with. You'll need to always have a good supply of replacement saltwater available.

what do you mean by that? should is still continue cleaning it off or get a new light and see?

 

[PhreeByrd]

I mean you should continue cleaning/manual removal. I'm very doubtful that lights alone will solve your immediate issue, even though in the long run, they are a good investment for any reef tank.
Meanwhile, I would investigate the possibility of cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates as well as algae. More positive identification of your issue is the most important thing right now.

 

[NotFishyFishGuy]

I mean you should continue cleaning/manual removal. I'm very doubtful that lights alone will solve your immediate issue, even though in the long run, they are a good investment for any reef tank.
Meanwhile, I would investigate the possibility of cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates as well as algae. More positive identification of your issue is the most important thing right now.

So what do you think the issue is?

 

[Jay Norris]

So what do you think the issue is?

With a PO4 reading of 0.25, I would guess you have a Phosphate problem, either from over feeding or maybe the rock is leaching PO4.

 

[PiggyPuffin]

I feed a small pinch of pellets or a half a cube of shrimp a day. Here r pics

White lights and blu lights in the first pic and blue lights in the second

Try cutting that in half (EOD) and eliminating pellets to just once a week. My algae growth/problem was directly related to how often and how much I fed my fish. Pellets have an extremely high nutritious value, many times that of frozen, and can lead to excess nutrients, especially in small tanks. If you want to increase food variety to compensate for the lack of pellets, then you can also feed a different type of frozen (callanus?). Try changing your feeding routine after your next major water change and cleaning, then see how long it takes for the algae to return over the following month.

I'd also start to remove most of the sand, as it can become an unflushed toilet bowl of detritus after only a few months...UNLESS you put in the effort to vacuum it regularly.

 

[PhreeByrd]

So what do you think the issue is?

I kind of hate to even say the word because it causes (usually) unwarranted knee-jerk reactions, but in your tank photos, I see what appears to be dinoflagellates, along with some cyanobacteria and diatoms. These are all a common part of a new tank settling in, and as troublesome as they appear, they often gradually resolve on their own without much human interference. The fact that you mentioned they reappear very quickly after cleaning the tank reinforces the idea that you're probably not dealing with a higher order algal pest.

I also suspect nutrient levels as a major contributing factor. Your phosphates are not alarmingly high, but they are higher than the 0.10 ppm that most people consider a maximum level. I wouldn't say that you should not upgrade your lighting, but I will repeat that I would not expect a lighting upgrade to fix the problem. There are a number of things you can do to address the issues. Make absolutely certain that you're not overfeeding your fish, and that they eat everything you give them. Reduce your feedings if you can - one feeding per day of good quality foods is enough for your fish. Reinforce your cleanup crew with scavengers like bristle worms and nassarius snails; I would not recommend hermit crabs at this point. Verify the quality of your new saltwater by making sure you are using 0 TDS RO/DI water and test your new saltwater for phosphate. Test the tank water weekly or even twice per week for nitrates and phosphate, and take your water test samples at the same time every day. Set your skimmer a little toward the wet side to be more aggressive with protein export. Continue manual removal of the nuisance. Above all, be patient, because nothing worthwhile is going to work overnight. It will likely take at least a few weeks to see a difference. In my opinion, you should target water levels of less than 20 ppm nitrate and 0.10ppm phosphate, but don't get crazy about chasing those numbers.

And keep in mind that your tank is evolving now in some pretty dramatic ways. It has not yet found equilibrium, and probably won't for several more months. But as it matures, it will establish ways to stabilize nutrient levels in the tank, provided that you maintain as much consistency as possible. Patience and consistency are the biggest keys.

 

[NotFishyFishGuy]

I kind of hate to even say the word because it causes (usually) unwarranted knee-jerk reactions, but in your tank photos, I see what appears to be dinoflagellates, along with some cyanobacteria and diatoms. These are all a common part of a new tank settling in, and as troublesome as they appear, they often gradually resolve on their own without much human interference. The fact that you mentioned they reappear very quickly after cleaning the tank reinforces the idea that you're probably not dealing with a higher order algal pest.

I also suspect nutrient levels as a major contributing factor. Your phosphates are not alarmingly high, but they are higher than the 0.10 ppm that most people consider a maximum level. I wouldn't say that you should not upgrade your lighting, but I will repeat that I would not expect a lighting upgrade to fix the problem. There are a number of things you can do to address the issues. Make absolutely certain that you're not overfeeding your fish, and that they eat everything you give them. Reduce your feedings if you can - one feeding per day of good quality foods is enough for your fish. Reinforce your cleanup crew with scavengers like bristle worms and nassarius snails; I would not recommend hermit crabs at this point. Verify the quality of your new saltwater by making sure you are using 0 TDS RO/DI water and test your new saltwater for phosphate. Test the tank water weekly or even twice per week for nitrates and phosphate, and take your water test samples at the same time every day. Set your skimmer a little toward the wet side to be more aggressive with protein export. Continue manual removal of the nuisance. Above all, be patient, because nothing worthwhile is going to work overnight. It will likely take at least a few weeks to see a difference. In my opinion, you should target water levels of less than 20 ppm nitrate and 0.10ppm phosphate, but don't get crazy about chasing those numbers.

And keep in mind that your tank is evolving now in some pretty dramatic ways. It has not yet found equilibrium, and probably won't for several more months. But as it matures, it will establish ways to stabilize nutrient levels in the tank, provided that you maintain as much consistency as possible. Patience and consistency are the biggest keys.

Thank you I will make sure I don’t over feed and I’ll test th after and get a tds meter.

 

[PhreeByrd]

I just want to clarify that it's worthwhile to test your RO water for phosphates now. You don't need to do this often, maybe a couple of times per year. Many municipalities add phosphate to the water to protect their water tower tanks and supply piping. If you're on a well, then I'd test for both phosphates and nitrates. A good RO/DI system should remove them, but you can't be sure unless you test.