Getting taken advantage of

[planereefer]

I work at a fish store here. We are running a deal on tank right now. We are selling them for what we get them for in hope that people buy everything else for the tank at the same time. There is mark up for the product in store then online. But if people only buy online and never go to the store to buy anything then the store can't stay open. Next time you need something like salt or carbon you won't have the store to get it at because you wanted to save 5$ on a skimmer or light by shopping online.

I'm not worried about saving $5, I prefer to shop in person, but I don't want to be taken advantage of because I'm a newbie and need help setting up my first saltwater system. I was looking at them to be my go-to store for my aquarium needs I told them that straight out before I had the quote drawn up. Knowing that, it would've made more sense to cut a deal with me knowing that I would come back for all livestock and consumables which equal recurring revenue. They would've made ten times that amount off me.

I'm going to disagree with most people here and say No, you weren't taken advantage of. Afterall, you asked for a quote, were given a quote and then you have the opportunity to decide to buy or not, after doing research.

Keep in mind, when it comes to LFS, their cost, on equipment, isn't much if any lower than you can buy on your own, online. With the many internet vendors available, we customers can buy nearly as cheap as the LFS can buy. As an example...

I recently wanted to purchase a skimmer from one of my favorite LFS, the same one OurReef referred to above...

Because she only had one supplier of this particular skimmer, her cost was more than if I were to buy it from one of our R2R Sponsors. There's no way she could purchase this skimmer, from her supplier, and make any profit, when customers could purchase it directly from another source, cheaper than the LFS could purchase it from her supplier.

Unfortunately, this is a very common scenario, putting a real hurt on LFS, who have much more of an overhead than most online vendors.

LFS must make a profit to stay in business. If I can purchase a skimmer, online, for less money than a LFS can purchase the skimmer, that LFS has to make tough decisions...

Do they NOT carry that product?
Do they carry the product and hope for the ocassional customer that needs it NOW, so purchases it from the LFS instead of online?

While my example was a skimmer, this is true of most equipment. It makes it very difficult on a LFS to compete, especially on entire tank packages.

While the tank is usually purchased from the LFS, keep in mind, they have very little markup on the tanks, so there's very little profit involved. The LFS has to build their profit into the other equipment and livestock.

I understand, but these aren't specialty items, these are items that every tank needs and supposedly they sell a lot of setups. But do you really need to charge me close to $3k, knowing I would be back for livestock, testing supplies, food, gadgets, etc... Most businesses make their money on return customers and build their margin with recurring revenue. Some companies (not necessarily LFS) even will take a loss on the initial sale because they know they will make it up on the backend.

I think some LFS think they are the only game in town and I'm sad to say they are not. They aren't by any stretch of the imagination.

It's not saving $5... Much of the items on his list he can save 25-50%. I understand stores have to make profit. So there's livestock... Everyone who has a tank puts something live in it. The majority of people buy their fish and inverts from lfs. Corals are a toss up. Some buy from lfs, some only buy from other reefers.

Thank you! You said it all right there.

Jest because they put down 59.99 does not mean they sell it at that. You can find a better price in the store or that store jest is giving other stores a bad name. Are heaters are about 5$ more then online stores. We have some fish 15$ cheaper then online. We have a lot of eshopp and its the same price as online. Not all LFS try to rip people off.

Well if it's on the quote, chances are that's what they would charge me at that particular LFS. I never said all LFS try and rip you off but I don't expect a new customer to be taken advantage of. I've already quoted most of this stuff out online and know I can do the whole setup for about $1500 (not including livestock), probably cheaper if I keep looking. Even if they charged me $2000 I would be a little more ok with.

The whole point of this thread was to find out if the prices I was given are in-line with other LFS. I know online is cheaper but I would rather deal with someone in person. That being said, I have no problems taking my business away from someone when I don't get treated fairly. I wasn't looking for a discount, I wasn't looking for free stuff, free labor or even free advice. I wanted to be treated fairly and be charged a fair price. This particular LFS did not and lost out on thousands of dollars in business from me. Simple as that.

 

[Epicreefer]

It really depends on what your main goal is with buying a lfs setup. IMO from working at what i first thought good lfs and installing pro aquaculture equipment for a few years is that there is a huge mark up. Also people who are inexperienced and have some extra cash are willing to pay these prices for good suport or to have it set up for you. I would be hesitant to buy that much from any lfs at once without knowing how good they are on long term customer service/help rather than just, "you should buy one of these" as a solution to your problems. Most of the stuff on your list can be bought online with free shipping for around half retail price. Now you don't have anyone holding your hand but that's why you here, believe it or not the Internet is better than most(not all) lfs when it comes to reef tanks (specialty saltwater only stores are the main exception). Also dry goods is where the profit is. Markup on fish is moderate to stay competitive and they die in store sometimes. It also cost money to run all that equipment so a lot of profit is from dry goods.

A breakdown of what you should realistically look at for a 2' 60g cube tank.

Tank and stand, that stand is about average the tank is a bit pricy but comes with holes bulkheads and an overflow so not too bad, I would expect about $3-400 total, you don't really have too much of a choice on this one as most compeeting lfs all have the same suppliers and therefore costs.

Skimmer, buy yourself something oversized in the reef octopus, or ATB line or a cone from avast marine works. There a bit more but not much and better quality, get something rated for about 150 and a 6" reaction chamber diameter if you want a nice reef and a good number of fish.

Sump I would build my own from a 20g high tank if it fits in the stand but that's just me, I don't like spending a ton of money on something that's main function is to serve as a bucket to hold equipment, but requires a bit of diy skills.

Water flow for $250 I would look into 2 of the smaller tunze pumps or a larger one with the tunze controller. Koralias aren't bad but other pumps are better.

Return pump I would look at an in sump eheim or something for a diy sump or a reeflo blowhole for external pump as it will be quieter

For lighting you can go all over the place on what's better but expect to spend a few hundred here. Look up reviews because there are a lot of junk fixtures out there that cost a lot more than they should. You want individual reflectors for t5 lighting.

Uv, don't waste your money, the skimmer will keep the water clear. They are good for some cases like reducing disease spread to fish in multitank systems but if you get a sick fish, they are all swimming around in the same tank and it will likely spread if other fish are stressed. Selecting good fish is first, keeping them in good health is second for preventing disease. The replacement bulb is also another $50-100 a year saved.

For live rock I would start with 30-40lb of reef saver dry rock from brs, it's dry but not from a reef so no dead stuff on it and will cycle better. See what you get and buy another 10 live from the lfs to seed it with pods and coraline.

The rest you could find some price breaks on and is somewhat accessories. With the above adjustments you should save $500 on uv, $100 on pump, $300 on rock and up to $250 on sump for $1150 less than above and a better skimmer. The skimmer is the heart of the tank so don't skimp $50 here. Spend a bit extra on a nice middle of the road oversized skimmer than a cheap one.

 

[Epicreefer]

Something else, you will more than likely need a phosphate reactor with granular ferric oxide down the road, I would recommend just setting it up to begin with. You could put a T in your return line and a small gate valve to adjust flow to the reactor to prevent buying another pump.

 

[specvjeff]

There's little margin to be made on a lot of supplies if you match online pricing. For instance, the 750 koralias are like $38 cost. So they are just trying to make their margin. In my opinion, they need to come down on that stuff. Everything else looks like average pricing to me. You don't have to buy everything from them. Order the tank, sump etc there to save on shipping costs, and order what you don't like prices on, online or from another LFS.

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