Getting tired.....

[TheEngineer]

I started a similar thread recently. It is frustrating. I do think the issue with people buying based on "coverage area" is part of the issue. I run a single Kessil A360WE over my 50g cube. I have no issues with shading because I have all zoanthids and my aquascape is designed to prevent casting shadows. If I was going to do SPS in this tank, I think two A180 would be better.

On my old 75g I ran DIY LEDs and it grew corals no problem. I could hit over 500 PAR on the sandbed at only 75%. With that build my fixture was the width of the tank so shading was never a problem either.

 

[Brewman1987]

I have been using LEDs since my tank upgrade back in November. I used to use a t5ho fixture and since the switch coral growth has exploded and consumption of energy is much less.

 

[Mike in CT]

You LED guys are way to sensitive... Lol
If I see a post I don't think is relevant, I just don't read it.

 

[dbrewsky]

I think a lot of it comes down to two things:

Users who do not fully understand the technology
- how it differs from mh/t5
- a lack of working understanding for how the advanced control of the led's affects spectrum/intensity.
-the "tuning" or "fidgeting" mentality
- realistic expectations for coverage, how bright the fixtures will appear, intensity settings
- attempting to use anecdotal evidences and personal perspectives to determine the proper lighting needs for your system based on observation and experiences vs facts and science

Mis-information and hype from manufacturers
- unrealistic coverage areas
- expectation of leds as a one stop solution for all tanks
- wide range of led quality/design/spectrum/intensities all competing for similar light solutions.

These are some of the trends I have seen through my own research and experiences with LEDS. I also am looking at this from a new reefer/ first time LED user perceptive. The majority of people coming into issues with leds seem to run into one or more of the issues above. The majority of people who are having success are either advanced reefers who have a high level understanding of the technology and reef lighting, people who have replicated success based on others positive results, or people who have either set-and-forget or made educated guesses when configuring their lights.

I have done extensive research over the last two years regarding the subjects and I have found that these are the major stumbling points that seem to determine whether a reefer has success or frustration with LEDS.

 

[jackson6745]

Every day I see a post stating "You will be disappointed with LED in 3-6 months and will wish you hadn't bought them". Its about enough to turn me away from the site because I feel like I have to defend a tried and true technology that does grow a great reef if done right. I have some of the cheapest LED fixtures you can buy and have greater success than most people in the hobby. Is it the lighting or just reefers who expected miracle results and were disappointed? I've been using LED for five years and have had nothing but great results. This is four months after a major reaquascape. LED's grow most of these corals an inch a month.

I feel the same way defending MH. You LED users are the clear majority on reef sites. Until someone has run 400w radiums for some time, I have a hard time valuing their opinion. I just let the results speak for themselves.

I haven't seen a single LED SPS tank on the web that grew like my tank did under 400w radium/t5/+ blue reefbrites. This tells me that LED is an inferior lighting (IMO mostly due to coverage), however, I do get the appeal for using them and I'm sure one day I will running them as primary lighting mostly for the conveniences that they provide.



Here's my tank on Jan 6th 2014
Jan 6th 2014 by rich colombo, on Flickr

Same tank 1 year later Jan 22nd 2015
jan 23 2015 by rich colombo, on Flickr

 

[dbrewsky]

So lets try to keep this on topic- yes myself and others have seen better growth/color/etc using one technology over the other. Lets contribute in a way that we can find solutions to why people experience issues with LEDS so they can can find success with their systems.

 

[TheEngineer]

I feel the same way defending MH. You LED users are the clear majority on reef sites. Until someone has run 400w radiums for some time, I have a hard time valuing their opinion. I just let the results speak for themselves.

I haven't seen a single LED SPS tank on the web that grew like my tank did under 400w radium/t5/+ blue reefbrites. This tells me that LED is an inferior lighting (IMO mostly due to coverage), however, I do get the appeal for using them and I'm sure one day I will running them as primary lighting mostly for the conveniences that they provide.



Here's my tank on Jan 6th 2014
Jan 6th 2014 by rich colombo, on Flickr

Same tank 1 year later Jan 22nd 2015
jan 23 2015 by rich colombo, on Flickr

I have no beef with MH or T5. I really don't care what anyone runs over their tank. I DO care when misinformation is provided about what you can and can't do with one source or another.

 

[jackson6745]

So lets try to keep this on topic- yes myself and others have seen better growth/color/etc using one technology over the other. Lets contribute in a way that we can find solutions to why people experience issues with LEDS so they can can find success with their systems.

Sorry if my post was considered of topic. It maybe hard to tell but I am NOT anti-LED at all. There are misconceptions among users that seem to stem from manufactures marketing + recommendations, hobbyist's with lack of experience with other lighting, and plan old 'fanboyism', yes, I just made that word up Trido clearly has awesome results and he has done it with $200 fixtures! This is a feasible option for me since I would probably use 4 of them over my cube for complete coverage. With radion, Ai, or Kessil that would cost 2k-3k.

 

[Paul B]

I have been running LEDs for quite a while and I just don't argue as I am to old for that. I don't care if other people use whale oil, Krill oil, LEDs or reflected light from the moon. I also don't care if instead of water you keep your fish in damp sawdust or newspapers. It's up to you. Do whatever you want because no one cares how other people run their tank. I also run a reverse undergravel filter. How stupid is that?

 

[Retro Reefer]

Great thread.. I'm in the process of switching over to LED's and honestly it makes me almost sick, I'm a die hard fan of fluorescents from way back I can still remember my udder disbelief after throwing the switch on my home brewed canopy packed with Philips actinic 03's that I had ordered from holland before they where available here in the states.. It was a huge leap forward in reef keeping and I was hopelessly in love with them, fast forward 30 years I'm establishing a new nano reef after a long break from reef keeping.. I purchased a AIO that featured fluorescent PC's and even a counter current skimmer, I was in old school heaven however I have quickly ran into multiple issues with the lights including shifting color spectrum after only 12 weeks, huge heat problems and I hate the way the 10k's wash out the tank colors when they fire up at mid day.. Reading all the negatives has made switching over to LED's even harder but after much research I'm convinced as you have pointed out most of the problems reported are from people that don't know what they are doing or have inferior LED's and just blanketly blame all LED's as being no good.

 

[jackson6745]

@Paul B B With the SPS game guys spend thousands to get awesome colors and growth. You have a more lax attitude toward reefing, and that's fine of course, but many of us want the best equipment to help us get the best results. For the hardy inhabitants in your tank you can get away with just about any lighting.

 

[dbrewsky]

@icecool2 - this is exactly the way I see it. The misinformation regarding reef tank lighting is not exclusive to LEDS! I think a major factor in why prior technologies were so successful is that they were for the most part plug-and-play. You set your timer for a certain amount of time and hung the fixture and if corals needed more or less light you moved them. Now that LEDS are vastly more controllable and the technology is a giant step away from the prior technologes people have to really research and understand spectrum and reef tank lighting to be successful compared to mh/t5. That and there has been a lot more time spent trying to perfect MH/T5 technologies over the years vs LED. Im sure if you were in the hobby back then would remember that people were going crazy trying to find this combination of ballast/bulb/reflector. This really isn't all that different from today.

 

[Retro Reefer]

I have been running LEDs for quite a while and I just don't argue as I am to old for that. I don't care if other people use whale oil, Krill oil, LEDs or reflected light from the moon. I also don't care if instead of water you keep your fish in damp sawdust or newspapers. It's up to you. Do whatever you want because no one cares how other people run their tank. I also run a reverse undergravel filter. How stupid is that

You have got me thinking about the next great advancement in reef keeping.. Do you have any studies on Whale oil Vs Krill oil for reef lighting

 

[masterbuilder]

I like LEDs just fine. My problem is shading/shadowing. I know that every type of lighting has this problem, its just that LEDs are one of the biggest offenders. Thats my only gripe. The overall clarity of the light from LEDs cant be matched though. There is a + and - to everything.

p.s. Think LED/T5 combo is as good as it gets.

 

[Paul B]

You have got me thinking about the next great advancement in reef keeping.. Do you have any studies on Whale oil Vs Krill oil for reef lighting

Yes, but whale oil is very expensive now and some people just don't like the color spectrum. My tank has gone from fish only to fish and leathers, to fish leathers and seaweed, to soft corals, to LPS, to mostly SPS to now which is heading to sponges and gorgonians just because it is a different type of set up than we normally see. This is an older picture. But like I said, my tank is for my enjoyment and the next step may be manatees or Duck billed Platypusses.

 

[alton]

The following is a picture of my wife's 65 Planet Crystaline Aquarium lit by 2 x 36" BML 20K, the frags came from my 300DD that was lit by MH(3hrs a day)/BML LED's(8 to 10 hrs a day). The best part of BML since they don't have the spot lights like most LED's I never had an issue moving corals from MH/LED to LED. Too bad they suspended there aquarium side to only make horticulture. Since I sold my 300 and went down to a 180 I use 2x14K and 2x20K BML fixtures and so far have not lost a coral in the switch.

 

[Paul B]

@Paul B B With the SPS game guys spend thousands to get awesome colors and growth. You have a more lax attitude toward reefing, and that's fine of course, but many of us want the best equipment to help us get the best results. For the hardy inhabitants in your tank you can get away with just about any lighting.

This is of course true. My corals would live under candlelight. But it is not just lighting that is important. As we can tell by this thread and many threads, SPS can be grown under almost any type of light. We can argue about it until they come up with "DEL" lights. (Delusional, Equitorial, Lights) I only have a few SPS now and only one small piece that people would call delicate and colorful. It is just not my thing any more as I am more interested in having all my fish spawning. Of course my nitrates are around 40 so it is to high for what many of you guys would keep your SPS tanks at. I don't see it as that much of a problem, but it is what it is and you guys have some beautiful tanks. But the most important thing about a tank, is that you like it, not me or anyone else.
This is what I take my FTSs with.

 

[Darryl]

i was old school and now that i have switched to leds will not go back .unless i have to set up a tank in a hurry and through the t5 and halides on till the leds arrive

 

[ridawg]

I run LEDs in my tank and I love them there cheep and work very well

 

[TheEngineer]

I wish there was an inexpensive way to dial in the color temperature of my Kessil. There's an app out there for $25 that will tell you color temp using your iPhone. You need to buy a light diffuser for it to work for another $30. I'd spend $25, but $55 is a bit much for me for something I'll use so rarely.