Getting to SPS

[Shawn_epicurious]

A cool problem to have : )

I am about to start removing some of my softies. My starting bioload included several Anthelia and several leathers. : ) They’ve gotten big! : ) ...a sign I am doing something right. I have a few that are just begging to take over my tank. I am still 4 months away from adding new livestock. I am a little afraid of taking out too much. ...not sure of where the line in the sand is on ....not having cleanup issues later or keeping a nice sized bioload for my tank to continue maturing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yes IMO.
I lowered alk from 8.5 to 7 and see better colors and growth did not change.
Do more research as Alk at 12 is not something you want imo.

I don't think he misread it since I have stated that exactly that way many times.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

Shawn: Here's an explanation of alkalinity and calcium with respect to coral health, specifically SPS. As you've noticed, there are multiple sources that recommend alkalinity all over the map - from around 7 dKH, which is close to natural sea water (NSW), to 8.0, to what would appear to be sky-high 12-14 dKH.

Considered in isolation to other water parameters, the variation would seem highly inconsistent or even dangerous to coral. It's certainly confusing to someone that's just starting out.

However, that's considering alkalinity and calcium in isolation, and in both natural systems and aquaria, the reality is considerably more complex. Specifically, it is possible to keep alkalinity at >10 dKH and calcium at 450 ppm or higher and have coral grow profusely. It's also possible to keep water at those levels and kill every acropora in the tank. The distinction is the interaction of dissolved and other nutrients with alkalinity and calcium. If the alk and Ca values are kept well above NSW in the presence of intense light of the right spectrum, AND the dissolved nutrients are quite high (way over NSW), the SPS coral placed in the tank will typically go through a growth stasis period of about 6 weeks as it adjusts its metabolism to the new water conditions, and then start growing profusely.

On the other hand, place an SPS coral in such an environment (high alk and Ca, intense light) with very little in the way of dissolved nutrients and little coral-specific feeding, and the coral will generally slowly fade in color over a few weeks, then die in a few hours - so called Rapid Tissue Necrosis (RTN).

In contrast, one can place an SPS coral in a tank environment that's quite close to NSW at around 7 dKH alk, 380 ppm Ca, low dissolved NO3, PO4, little coral-specific feeding, and moderate lighting, and the corals will do just fine, albeit growing much more slowly than the conditions described above.

One other comment - the dissolved organics in aquarium water plays a part in keeping carbonate/bicarbonate (i.e., "alkalinity") and calcium in solution. New tanks tend to have very little dissolved organics, which is why we often see folks trying to keep high alk and Ca needing to add large amounts of carbonate/bicarbonate in a failed attempt to keep alkalinity high, even though their magnesium levels are normal or elevated. The tanks that I've seen that successfully keep SPS corals in high alk and Ca have been around for at least a year, and have many fish that get fed copious amounts, so they have high dissolved organic levels by default.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

Shawn: Here's an explanation of alkalinity and calcium with respect to coral health, specifically SPS. As you've noticed, there are multiple sources that recommend alkalinity all over the map - from around 7 dKH, which is close to natural sea water (NSW), to 8.0, to what would appear to be sky-high 12-14 dKH.

Considered in isolation to other water parameters, the variation would seem highly inconsistent or even dangerous to coral. It's certainly confusing to someone that's just starting out.

However, that's considering alkalinity and calcium in isolation, and in both natural systems and aquaria, the reality is considerably more complex. Specifically, it is possible to keep alkalinity at >10 dKH and calcium at 450 ppm or higher and have coral grow profusely. It's also possible to keep water at those levels and kill every acropora in the tank. The distinction is the interaction of dissolved and other nutrients with alkalinity and calcium. If the alk and Ca values are kept well above NSW in the presence of intense light of the right spectrum, AND the dissolved nutrients are quite high (way over NSW), the SPS coral placed in the tank will typically go through a growth stasis period of about 6 weeks as it adjusts its metabolism to the new water conditions, and then start growing profusely.

On the other hand, place an SPS coral in such an environment (high alk and Ca, intense light) with very little in the way of dissolved nutrients and little coral-specific feeding, and the coral will generally slowly fade in color over a few weeks, then die in a few hours - so called Rapid Tissue Necrosis (RTN).

In contrast, one can place an SPS coral in a tank environment that's quite close to NSW at around 7 dKH alk, 380 ppm Ca, low dissolved NO3, PO4, little coral-specific feeding, and moderate lighting, and the corals will do just fine, albeit growing much more slowly than the conditions described above.

One other comment - the dissolved organics in aquarium water plays a part in keeping carbonate/bicarbonate (i.e., "alkalinity") and calcium in solution. New tanks tend to have very little dissolved organics, which is why we often see folks trying to keep high alk and Ca needing to add large amounts of carbonate/bicarbonate in a failed attempt to keep alkalinity high, even though their magnesium levels are normal or elevated. The tanks that I've seen that successfully keep SPS corals in high alk and Ca have been around for at least a year, and have many fish that get fed copious amounts, so they have high dissolved organic levels by default.

Wow, thank you for this... I could not have asked for a better explanation. : )

 

[Dkeller_nc]

What I typically recommend to folks with a new tank is to simply maintain Ca, Alk & Mag levels fairly close to natural seawater (7-8 dKH Alk, 380-440 ppm Ca, 1200 - 1400 ppm Mag), and not coincidentally, the values of a lot of "regular" salt mixes (i.e., those not intended for max coral growth). And to work on maintaining those values as stably as you can for the first year of a new reef tank. As I'm sure you might've heard before, stability of the alkalinity of the tank water is probably the most important consideration to keeping acropora in particular. The second most important consideration, IMO, is illumination - it needs to be of the correct spectrum and duration, and a measured intensity value of around 300 +/- 100 PAR. That last part is extremely important - you can easily "nuke" acropora and other SPS with too much light, particularly if the tank water is nutrient-poor and the alk and Ca values are elevated.

On the illumination subject, the dirt-simple, easiest and least expensive means of providing light of the correct intensity and spectrum is to use a T5HO fixture like an ATI. Put in mostly blue plus bulbs, one or two coral plus bulbs for color, and perhaps one or two actinics for the dawn/dusk cycle, set it to 12 hours a day, and you're good - no PAR meter necessary. Rather obviously, this is assuming the newb reefer is using a common tank size of appropriate depth - it is possible to nuke corals with a T5HO fixture, but that generally requires a water depth of 6 inches or less, and the fixture within 4" of the water surface.

On the other hand, installing and tuning LED fixtures is considerably more problematic. Because the light is by definition a point source, and most LED fixtures don't scatter the light cone to nearly the extent of a T5HO or Metal Halide fixture, our eyes really aren't a good judge of intensity. And the light will appear dimmer than it actually is, which is a setup for bleaching corals if you're inexperienced. For that reason, I'd strongly encourage anyone starting with SPS to purchase, borrow or rent a PAR meter. Many folks balk at the $200 - $400 for a meter that they won't use all that often, but IMHO, that's penny-wise and pound-foolish since even a small SPS colony will run $100 or more, and most of us have at least 10 of them in an average tank.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

What I typically recommend to folks with a new tank is to simply maintain Ca, Alk & Mag levels fairly close to natural seawater (7-8 dKH Alk, 380-440 ppm Ca, 1200 - 1400 ppm Mag), and not coincidentally, the values of a lot of "regular" salt mixes (i.e., those not intended for max coral growth). And to work on maintaining those values as stably as you can for the first year of a new reef tank. As I'm sure you might've heard before, stability of the alkalinity of the tank water is probably the most important consideration to keeping acropora in particular. The second most important consideration, IMO, is illumination - it needs to be of the correct spectrum and duration, and a measured intensity value of around 300 +/- 100 PAR. That last part is extremely important - you can easily "nuke" acropora and other SPS with too much light, particularly if the tank water is nutrient-poor and the alk and Ca values are elevated.

On the illumination subject, the dirt-simple, easiest and least expensive means of providing light of the correct intensity and spectrum is to use a T5HO fixture like an ATI. Put in mostly blue plus bulbs, one or two coral plus bulbs for color, and perhaps one or two actinics for the dawn/dusk cycle, set it to 12 hours a day, and you're good - no PAR meter necessary. Rather obviously, this is assuming the newb reefer is using a common tank size of appropriate depth - it is possible to nuke corals with a T5HO fixture, but that generally requires a water depth of 6 inches or less, and the fixture within 4" of the water surface.

On the other hand, installing and tuning LED fixtures is considerably more problematic. Because the light is by definition a point source, and most LED fixtures don't scatter the light cone to nearly the extent of a T5HO or Metal Halide fixture, our eyes really aren't a good judge of intensity. And the light will appear dimmer than it actually is, which is a setup for bleaching corals if you're inexperienced. For that reason, I'd strongly encourage anyone starting with SPS to purchase, borrow or rent a PAR meter. Many folks balk at the $200 - $400 for a meter that they won't use all that often, but IMHO, that's penny-wise and pound-foolish since even a small SPS colony will run $100 or more, and most of us have at least 10 of them in an average tank.

Stability is my primary goal over the next four months... my water parameters are already within the ranges you just described (my PH is borderline low) and I have been very stable in those ranges for the last two months. I dropped in a pic below. I’ve been doing a lot of reading about ”how” to dose and yet very little on ”what” to actually dose with. I have not started dosing yet, but am getting very, very close. I am now comfortable with the equipment I have now for maintaining my water. Lighting... oddly enough is next on my list.

Right now I have three LED AI lights on my tank. 2 Hydra 32 HDs and 1 Hydra 26 in the center. I have been pricing a PAR meter. I’ve even asked a few people here if they thought buying one was a good idea. Most people have balked lol. I am an accountant by profession... I like numbers. Better yet, I like known numbers at the push of a button. I will probably end up buying one. : ) I also like the flexibility of the AI app for controlling my lights. I like what you said about T5s and MH..... I worry about the heat creation since I have a wooden box covering my 200 gallon tank. My tank has decent depth (which is why I wanted a PAR meter) My tank is 6’ x 2’ with a water depth of 26”. I don’t mind admitting that I am a lighting idiot. Which in my mind is the perfect arguement for buying a PAR meter. : )

Wow, T5s and MH.... that’s a lot of heat : (

 

[Rick Strauss]

My tank is getting close to six months old.It’s not mature yet, but it is closer than it was yesterday. : )

Covid is killing me! There are certain aspects of this hobby that are beyond me. Installing my calcium reactor and getting it flowing up threw my Neptune... yeah... I’m willing to pay for help. My LFS guy... he’s good! ...someone in his store tested positive. Yeah, no help for 2 weeks and I thought I’d have it going yesterday. : (

The pic below is something that is bothering me. ...it’s what my tank is doing all by itself with the bioload it has, my feeding schedule and my water change habits (and salt). I am trying to turn on a calcium reactor while my “constant” level of calcium is already perfect for SPS. I also get that reactor effects both PH and Alk, which my tank needs help with.

What happens if I over supply Calcium? I don’t have any SPS yet...

Both alk and calcium will rise at the same time with no Sps load. Ph will also drop 10 to 20 points

 

[Dkeller_nc]

Stability is my primary goal over the next four months... my water parameters are already within the ranges you just described (my PH is borderline low) and I have been very stable in those ranges for the last two months. I dropped in a pic below. I’ve been doing a lot of reading about ”how” to dose and yet very little on ”what” to actually dose with. I have not started dosing yet, but am getting very, very close. I am now comfortable with the equipment I have now for maintaining my water. Lighting... oddly enough is next on my list.

Right now I have three LED AI lights on my tank. 2 Hydra 32 HDs and 1 Hydra 26 in the center. I have been pricing a PAR meter. I’ve even asked a few people here if they thought buying one was a good idea. Most people have balked lol. I am an accountant by profession... I like numbers. Better yet, I like known numbers at the push of a button. I will probably end up buying one. : ) I also like the flexibility of the AI app for controlling my lights. I like what you said about T5s and MH..... I worry about the heat creation since I have a wooden box covering my 200 gallon tank. My tank has decent depth (which is why I wanted a PAR meter) My tank is 6’ x 2’ with a water depth of 26”. I don’t mind admitting that I am a lighting idiot. Which in my mind is the perfect arguement for buying a PAR meter. : )

Wow, T5s and MH.... that’s a lot of heat : (

Not as much as you might think, but to tell the truth MH is pretty much out of the question any longer because of bulb availability. But T5HO is going strong - check out the Reef of the Day for today (Mike's Softy Tank) - you will see it lit exclusively with T5HOs.

Having said that, I wouldn't put T5HOs in an unvented canopy. For that matter, I wouldn't put LEDs in an unvented canopy, either. Roughly speaking, T5HOs and LEDs have about the same efficiency, which means that for a given light output, they generate about the same amount of heat.

If you think that you need more light (you might not - I didn't see your tank size, but I"m assuming it's a 6-footer), you have the option of installing one or more of the T5HO fixtures that will accommodate your AI's - Aquatic Life makes several models.

With respect to dosing, you can easily do this yourself. Randy has several articles on DIY 2-part dosing solutions, and all you need is some baking soda, some calcium chloride, a scale, and some sort of liquid container with a known volume. If you don't have the containers, Bulk Reef Supply will sell you a complete kit with the chemicals, measuring containers (so you don't have to have the scales), and liquid dosing containers.

 

[Bacon505]

Im the pop-up picture type of guy, can i see some pictures of the setup. Sorry for my ignorance

 

[X-37B]

Not as much as you might think, but to tell the truth MH is pretty much out of the question any longer because of bulb availability. But T5HO is going strong - check out the Reef of the Day for today (Mike's Softy Tank) - you will see it lit exclusively with T5HOs.

Having said that, I wouldn't put T5HOs in an unvented canopy. For that matter, I wouldn't put LEDs in an unvented canopy, either. Roughly speaking, T5HOs and LEDs have about the same efficiency, which means that for a given light output, they generate about the same amount of heat.

If you think that you need more light (you might not - I didn't see your tank size, but I"m assuming it's a 6-footer), you have the option of installing one or more of the T5HO fixtures that will accommodate your AI's - Aquatic Life makes several models.

With respect to dosing, you can easily do this yourself. Randy has several articles on DIY 2-part dosing solutions, and all you need is some baking soda, some calcium chloride, a scale, and some sort of liquid container with a known volume. If you don't have the containers, Bulk Reef Supply will sell you a complete kit with the chemicals, measuring containers (so you don't have to have the scales), and liquid dosing containers.

Their is plenty of availability for MH.
Just look at BRS or Marine Depot.
Im switching from T5's to MH and running Phoenix 14K.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

Im the pop-up picture type of guy, can i see some pictures of the setup. Sorry for my ignorance

Pop-up picture guy... lol

 

[X-37B]

Pop-up picture guy... lol

Nice setup. Pretty cool scape! I approve, lol.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

Nice setup. Pretty cool scape! I approve, lol.

Thank you

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

I don't think he misread it since I have stated that exactly that way many times.

I re-read my threads quite often. You said that I didn’t mis-read that...? Are you saying that Alk at 12 is good for growth?

 

[Dkeller_nc]

Shawn - A word to the wise: buy some of the outlet blank-off plugs (sometimes sold as child safety devices) for both your wall plug and your extra Apex power strip plugs. No matter how you arrange your equipment, salt spray has a way of finding open electrical outlets - DAMHIKT.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

Their is plenty of availability for MH.
Just look at BRS or Marine Depot.
Im switching from T5's to MH and running Phoenix 14K.

That's kind of interesting. About a year ago, BRS put all of their MH fixtures and bulbs on clearance, which certainly implied that it was a "going, going, gone..." type of thing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I re-read my threads quite often. You said that I didn’t mis-read that...? Are you saying that Alk at 12 is good for growth?

Yes, but it requires more careful attention that nutrients do not get too low (might get burnt tips if they do, perhaps due to the skeleton growing faster than the tissue can keep up), and high alk possibly may impact color (that's less clear). I generally recommend staying in the 7-11 dKH range.

I agree with folks above that keeping near NSW levels is a good place to start. It is more forgiving.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

Yes, but it requires more careful attention that nutrients do not get too low (might get burnt tips if they do, perhaps due to the skeleton growing faster than the tissue can keep up), and high alk possibly may impact color (that's less clear). I generally recommend staying in the 7-11 dKH range.

I agree with folks above that keeping near NSW levels is a good place to start. It is more forgiving.

Thank you for that : )

To be honest, even when I first read that, my first thought was... that is probably an approach I don’t have the experience to deal with properly.

 

[Bacon505]

Pop-up picture guy... lol

Nice luxury tAnk. I would power off your calcium reactor since you dont have the need for at your current state. I dont know what you’re dosing in your DOS. That anthelia or whatever they call it that look like xenia is very invasive just fyi. Hard later for sps setup if they are overgrown. What size is the tank?

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

Nice luxury tAnk. I would power off your calcium reactor since you dont have the need for at your current state. I dont know what you’re dosing in your DOS. That anthelia or whatever they call it that look like xenia is very invasive just fyi. Hard later for sps setup if they are overgrown. What size is the tank?

It’s 200 gallons in the DT. I am removing most of the Anthelia next week. My LFS is going to buy them from me. I’ll end up re-homing almost all of the softies isn’t he next few months. I needed a cheap bioload to get started.. just in case I killed everything.