GFCI Outlet poll

[piranhaman00]

As long as you don't buy some crazy cheap off brand it should be just fine. I know that quite a few years ago some powerstrips came from China without any actual connections to the ground but that is a very unusual situation. And no, the switch doesn't disconnect the ground so it will work even if the power strip is turned off.

Sorry, need to clarify. You are saying if the powerstrip is switched off, a grounding probe plugged into one will still be working?

 

[Brew12]

Sorry, need to clarify. You are saying if the powerstrip is switched off, a grounding probe plugged into one will still be working?

Correct.

The only way the probe would not provide a ground is if one or the other is unplugged.

 

[piranhaman00]

Correct.

The only way the probe would not provide a ground is if one or the other is unplugged.

Perfect thanks!

 

[siggy]

personal experience tells me i can handle 120v in small doses

Same. I bet these wimps turn off breakers when changing outlets/switches!

I jest

Yup. Getting zapped is a right of passage working with electrical.

Just so others reading know what you mean:
It's all about the amps (dose) not the volts.

Amps = watts/volts

100mA or more can be deadly. (.1amps)

I’m not discouraging GFCI. I’m asking that we don’t fear monger

30+ year electrician and I still think twice. I have been zapped a few times and the worst was a control circuit (120v) that was drawing less than an amp, One hand was holding a steel frame and the other on the screwdriver, the path was through the heart. This one can constrict your muscles and hold you.
480v from hand to elbow hertz like heck but totally survivable, through the chest/heart is a killer.
You need to respect all electricity period!

 

[CuzzA]

Yes, I saw that one in your thread. Tragedy.

So is the risk of dying from electrical shock in your aquarium more or less than the risk of dying via palytoxin?

I always encourage logic. One in 600 people die in a car crash. Still, I doubt you walk to the supermarket.

I’m not discouraging GFCI. I’m asking that we don’t fear monger

Yes, but you are discounting the danger of being killed by an aquarium fire which I suspect happens much more frequently, but news media rarely updates their initial reports. Especially for single home fires. Hell, that news reporter asked the fire chief how many so far that year and he said three. That is one little town.

It's not fear mongering, it's common sense, especially if you have small children or other animals who could tamper or chew on wires. Also consider those who live in apartments or condos. You could set a whole building blazing.

What's the risk? I don't know. With the market flooded with cheap Chinese, likely non UL crap, all it takes is an error or oversight in the setup and it could spell disaster. Furthermore I know by code wet locations are required to have protected circuits if an outlet is within ten feet, this didn't come about because Levitron lobbied congress, it came about to stop electrocution and fire incidents. I am unaware of any code that says you need one for a residential aquarium, but when does an aquarium become a wet location? How many reefers have plumbed their RODI to an ATO reservoir in their stand? That to me meets the definition of a wet location, no different than a sink as there's an endless supply of water. Will your insurance deny a claim? No. Could you lose everything you own? Yes.

Like I said, just use a GFCI breaker instead of an outlet. They do not have the failure rate that a GFCI outlet has and they are nearly comparable in price.

 

[MarcF]

I am getting really spooked by all this.
I’m getting my tank and the rest of it today.
I ordered a plug-in CFCI outlet - plug into a regular outlet. I also have a master switch on the wall. Is it a good idea to just switch off the entire system from the wall, whenever I’m going to put my hand in? Would that offer me full protection? And would that upset the system - to turn it fully off for a half hour or so?

 

[zalick]

30+ year electrician and I still think twice. I have been zapped a few times and the worst was a control circuit (120v) that was drawing less than an amp, One hand was holding a steel frame and the other on the screwdriver, the path was through the heart. This one can constrict your muscles and hold you.
480v from hand to elbow hertz like heck but totally survivable, through the chest/heart is a killer.
You need to respect all electricity period!

Thankfully I've never been grounded that well when zapped and it was just through the fingers. And each time I got zapped working on a live light switch/socket, it reminded me of how dumb I was for not simply turning off the breaker.

I turn off the breaker 100% if the time now!

Electricity is no joke. difference between feeling a zap at ~50mA and dying at 100mA is nothing to play around with.

 

[crusso1993]

Quite a bit of really great info, questions and commentary I just read in this thread.

I am a big advocate of using GFCI breakers. I also am a big advocate of grounding tanks. I base my advocacy in advice given to me by two close friends. One is a master Electrician and the other has a doctorate in Electrical and Electronics Engineering.

I find it rather comical that we've heard from 2, 30+ year certified electricians who say to implement the use of GFCI, in conjunction with grounding, and, yet, there are replies implying or saying it's ok not to use them.

@siggy - I loved the use of "hertz" in your reply!

 

[alton]

Some people want the GFCI to be manually reset on a loss of power, but I can't say I understand why. Then again, some people may fell the "old school" GFCI were better and they are catering to that crowd.

We use these on job sites where temporary power is used. Example: you are using a circular saw and lose power for a short time, the idea is they do not want that saw to come back on until the operator resets the GFCI. No different than a stop start switch on an assembly line.

 

[RichReef]

I don't and would never use an outlet. They are junk, trip prone, and too sensitive.

I only use in lines or breaker types and my tank is wired at 20 amp with 10 g wire.

110 isn't killing anyone anyways. Make you go wooo. But not hurting anyone unless you sit inside your tank.

 

[scottedontknow]

I run my tanks on two seperate circuts both on GFCI outlets. i have my apex on one then i have "Oh crap" stuff on the other (always on) so have extra power heads on that so if the main power to the tank trips the GFCI then at least ill have power heads moveing water in the tank so i have extra time to figure out what went wrong haha. IMO and ill say it again I M O anywhere there is water near.... there should be a GFCI, again thats just ME, to each their own!

 

[alton]

I don't and would never use an outlet. They are junk, trip prone, and too sensitive.

I only use in lines or breaker types and my tank is wired at 20 amp with 10 g wire.

110 isn't killing anyone anyways. Make you go wooo. But not hurting anyone unless you sit inside your tank.

Two men died from 120 volts. One I knew my whole life. While working on a waterline he came in contact with current because the water line and electrical line feeding a pump was in the same trench. The other I did now know well but lived five miles from my home. While working in his attic, soaked from sweat, he rolled over on a piece romex that was nicked and came in contact with current and died that day in his attic. Please do not tell anyone that 120 volts will not kill you!
If you do not like GFCI protection than you better not buy a new home when the new 2020 NEC takes effect, you will definitely not be happy.

 

[CuzzA]

I am getting really spooked by all this.
I’m getting my tank and the rest of it today.
I ordered a plug-in CFCI outlet - plug into a regular outlet. I also have a master switch on the wall. Is it a good idea to just switch off the entire system from the wall, whenever I’m going to put my hand in? Would that offer me full protection? And would that upset the system - to turn it fully off for a half hour or so?

Buy a grounding probe and you'll have no worries about being electrocuted. The tank off for a half hour would be fine in most circumstances.

Keep in mind though, there is legitimate concern that should the GFCI trip your tank could crash. Spreading the life support over two circuits is ideal, but not always practical without running lines.

So what do we do?

I am a firm believer that we all have a responsibility to have some sort of an automatic backup system. Whether it's the setup I shared, a UPS, or a commercially available backup offered by aquarium manufacturers. Remember it's not just a GFCI tripping. Utility power loss can kill just as well.

Our pets are unique. It's not like cats and dogs, birds or even freshwater fish which are easily bred. Just about everything is still removed from the reefs. Reefs that are in serious trouble. Not to mention just about every reef tank has a considerable investment and weighing the cost of a backup vs. the value of life in your tank, it's extremely cheap insurance.

Trust me, I know we'd rather spend that $100 on the next coral or fish, but anecdotally, the top culprits of full tank crashes are malfunctioning heaters and power loss.

 

[RichReef]

Two men died from 120 volts. One I knew my whole life. While working on a waterline he came in contact with current because the water line and electrical line feeding a pump was in the same trench. The other I did now know well but lived five miles from my home. While working in his attic, soaked from sweat, he rolled over on a piece romex that was nicked and came in contact with current and died that day in his attic. Please do not tell anyone that 120 volts will not kill you!
If you do not like GFCI protection than you better not buy a new home when the new 2020 NEC takes effect, you will definitely not be happy.

I'm sorry. I thought we were discussing aquariums. Both of those deaths had the special circumstances for that to happen but neither were an aquarium.

If you actually read my post you would have noted that I DO have GFCI protection. Just not a sloppy outlet one.

 

[stanleo]

I put GFCI outlets in my new fish room along with a battery backup that will run the heater and return for 4 hours. And I have grounding probe in the sump. I am also going to put one in the DT once the room is done. I just want to be absolutely safe when it comes to that room. I also put all the outlets at eye level to minimize the risk of having any water splash onto them.

 

[siggy]

x

 

[RichReef]

If you want the facts Talk to an instructor that teaches safety, he will have you burning oil lamps for light.
Your hearts beats at 60 to 100 cycles a minute and is more or less controlled by elecro impulses by the brain, when electrocuted , @ 60 hertz per second the heart thinks that is the rate and stops or flutters, Cavitation occurs and blood stops flowing. That's a low current electrocution, A high current or voltage will burn you inside and damage as well as flutter or stop your heart.

Inside a carwash. Once again I thought we were talking about aquariums. You aren't going to die unless you sit inside your aquarium. You aren't going to die getting a shock touching your water with your hand. Your body won't let you continue to put your hand in the tank.

I'm just going to edit that out because obviously people can't understand this is an aquarium discussion.

Now if you want to come up with an example of someone who was electrocuted to death by an aquarium I'll be all ears.

EDIT: Someone has decided I shouldn't be able to edit those posts but whatever.

 

[MnFish1]

Inside a carwash. Once again I thought we were talking about aquariums. You aren't going to die unless you sit inside your aquarium. You aren't going to die getting a shock touching your water with your hand. Your body won't let you continue to put your hand in the tank.

I'm just going to edit that out because obviously people can't understand this is an aquarium discussion.

Now if you want to come up with an example of someone who was electrocuted to death by an aquarium I'll be all ears.

EDIT: Someone has decided I shouldn't be able to edit those posts but whatever.

If you're not a supporter - you can only edit posts a short time.
On the electricity thing - have gotten shocked, no big deal. Have had a GFI flip off (for no reason) - and messed up the tank. Have also had a fire in my daughters room when a HOB filter leaked onto an outlet. If we weren't home at the time - we would've lost our house - even with that - it was a 40,000$ insurance claim. So - human life is important of course - but there are lots of other things that can cause problems with electricity and water.

IMHO - Do what you think is best. But always be careful with electricity and water - if this was 'no big deal' - there wouldn't be warnings on ever single piece of aquarium equipment thats plugged in - or?

aquarium human electrocution

 

[alton]

Sorry your statement of 110 isn't going to kill anyone anyways, is what got me.

 

[nkyreef]

There's a reason why the National Electric Code requires GFCIs to be located near sinks and wherever else water maybe present. As far as I know there isn't anything enforceable in regards to aquariums. Regardless, I use this GFCI which has an alarm that will let me know if the outlet has tripped. Even though my Apex will alert me this is a nice backup option.