GFO and Chaeto: The perfect Dino storm?

[LadyTang2]

First on GFO, might it aid Dinos via 2 mechanisms?
1. We all know using too much GFO means zero P which is associated with Dinos.
2. More interestingly, Dana Riddle wrote an article about GFO and trace metals (https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/2/chemistry). It basically shows that GFO increases iron concentrations, the mechanism for that is not important for this discussion, just that we know GFO essentially leaks iron. I have read several times that Dinos like iron.

As for cheato, as I understand it uses iron, molybdenum, ect. In @mcarroll 's first post he writes "Dino's seem to prefer life as autotrophic epiphytes on macro algae – chaeto morpha seems to be one of their favorite types to host in.... maybe sometimes chaeto ought not be used". Could this be in part because chaeto is high in iron and perhaps dying chaeto releases more Fe?

So could chaeto suppress dino blooms by competing for iron, but after a bloom become a great home? In other words, could chaeto prevent blooms but make dinos worse if there is a bloom? I am just thinking out loud here, please poke holes.

If you choose to respond to this thread, perhaps briefly summarize your thoughts before elaborating further so folks can get the gist of it. Thanks!

 

[saltyhog]

Both GFO and chaeto are tools that certainly can contribute to dinos if used unwisely. IMO the former more than the later.

My thoughts on GFO is that it's almost always very effective on PO4 but safe if monitored closely. I have used GFO for years and #1 never had any issues until I got too aggressive(lazy) and let it take my PO4 to zero. #2 Never had any significant iron elevations in ICP tests when using GFO. The mechanism of GFO possibly elevating iron is pretty clear...It's ferric oxide.

Chaeto I think has a lot more margin of error. I think most of the time it takes NO3 down to dangerous near zero levels it's intentional. I've never been able to do that with just chaeto.

 

[LadyTang2]

Chaeto I think has a lot more margin of error. I think most of the time it takes NO3 down to dangerous near zero levels it's intentional. I've never been able to do that with just chaeto.

Thanks salty! Just to clarify about the nitrates, you're saying chaeto brings NO3 to 0 for many people but it has not for you correct?

I'm just trying to do everything I can to avoid dinos in this build, what are your thoughts on live rock to help avoid dinos? I hear a lot of anecdotal stories about that.

 

[saltyhog]

Thanks salty! Just to clarify about the nitrates, you're saying chaeto brings NO3 to 0 for many people but it has not for you correct?

I'm just trying to do everything I can to avoid dinos in this build, what are your thoughts on live rock to help avoid dinos? I hear a lot of anecdotal stories about that.

Sorry I wasn't clear. Actually I was thinking the opposite. Chaeto helps control NO3 but rarely will it produce zero NO3 for most folks. On the other hand, it's very easy to bottom out PO4 with GFO....don't ask me how I know!

 

[Bret Brinkmann]

Chemical nutrient control is more effective than biological control. So much so that it can drive them to zero. I bottomed out phosphates using Phosban too aggressively. It took me 6 months to get things looking good again but a full year to completly recover.

Once dinos bloom any form of nutrient control will be counter productive against raising the nutrients back up again. The concept is to put the dino food back into the water so they follow verses forcing them to take nutrients from other algae by attaching to them.

So yes, chemical control is less forgiving if used improperly and therefore runs a higher risk of instigating a dino bloom. But will cheato help resolve a dino bloom? Theoretically yes IF you are dosing nutrients AND you don't add micronutrients like Fe through water changes or other means. HOWEVER, it hasn't proven to be the most effective technique based other many reefers experiences.

The reason for this is that dinos typically clump on the cheato, blocking the light and sucking up its nutrients, thus killing it. You can clean it off, but due to the way it naturally grows in a tangled mess, it is a difficult proposition. Cheato is also one of the more efficient nutrient absorbers which makes you have to dose more.