Gfo in media bag

Jl330 · Sep 27, 2018

I don't have a reactor to put my gfo in. Will suspending it in my sump near a powerhead do much if anything?if so, how quickly will I see phosphate drop?

saltyfilmfolks · Sep 27, 2018

Put it on the return pump.

It kinda depends on how much you use and how high the Po4 is.

Jl330 · Sep 27, 2018

saltyfilmfolks said:
Put it on the return pump.

It kinda depends on how much you use and how high the Po4 is.

It's up there. I don't have a good test but it's probably over 1

saltyfilmfolks · Sep 27, 2018

Jl330 said:
It's up there. I don't have a good test but it's probably over 1

1.0?
You should check that.

A bag on the return or sump isn’t going to do much.

Jl330 · Sep 27, 2018

saltyfilmfolks said:
1.0?
You should check that.

A bag on the return or sump isn’t going to do much.

Its an api test I need to get a hanna

saltyfilmfolks · Sep 27, 2018

Jl330 said:
Its an api test I need to get a hanna

If you do the test a couple times and it’s high. It’s high.
I have api as well.

Jl330 · Sep 27, 2018

Ok just tested it. Showing around .5 on this test.

Jl330 · Sep 27, 2018

I chucked the bag in there. I'll order a reactor and transfer it. Can't hurt.

saltyfilmfolks · Sep 27, 2018

See how it goes really.
That’s Reefing!

Jl330 · Sep 28, 2018

saltyfilmfolks said:
See how it goes really.
That’s Reefing!

I'll run tests on Saturday after a 10% water change.

I'm almost at the point of not killing my sps.

saltyfilmfolks · Sep 28, 2018

Jl330 said:
I'll run tests on Saturday after a 10% water change.

I'm almost at the point of not killing my sps.

Hahaha!
Been there ! It’s actually a big step.

Ime , I prett much always do every api test twice in a row. Usually get prettt close. It’s kinda a close estimate. Was actually in the ballpark the one time i got a triton test.

Jl330 · Oct 3, 2018

Thought I'd post an update. Over the weekend I tested using the API test and was showing around .5 phosphates. This is after showing around 1.0 originally.

Last night, tested again, showing .25.

Hoping to be undetectible on this test by weekend. I'll keep this updated. Oddly enough, I feel like my blasto is already looking more pink and less brown.

jda · Oct 3, 2018

See if it goes back up in a few days. If you have high P numbers, then your rock and sand (aragonite) can hold/bind a lot more in reserve and it will release some as the water level falls. It can take pounds and pounds of GFO to get it to where it goes down and stays down - a friend of mine needed a whole 5 gallon bucket to get rid of the terrestrial phosphate on his dry rock purchase... and it took about 4 months of every-other-day changing.

When using the GFO, use a little bit, but use it quickly. Bertoni (on RC) had some study once that the stuff gets coated in organics easily and stops absorbing when it does. I would use all that you can use in 3-7 days and replace it. Smaller amounts and more frequent changes seem to work best.

Here is a quote from Dr. Holmes-Farley's phosphate article:

If the calcium carbonate crystal is static (not growing), then this process is reversible, and the aragonite can act as a reservoir for phosphate. This reservoir can inhibit the complete removal of excess phosphate from a reef aquarium that has experienced very high phosphate levels, and may permit algae to continue to thrive despite all external phosphate sources having been cut off. In such extreme cases, removal of the substrate may even be required.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

Jl330 · Oct 3, 2018

jda said:
See if it goes back up in a few days. If you have high P numbers, then your rock and sand (aragonite) can hold/bind a lot more in reserve and it will release some as the water level falls. It can take pounds and pounds of GFO to get it to where it goes down and stays down - a friend of mine needed a whole 5 gallon bucket to get rid of the terrestrial phosphate on his dry rock purchase... and it took about 4 months of every-other-day changing.

When using the GFO, use a little bit, but use it quickly. Bertoni (on RC) had some study once that the stuff gets coated in organics easily and stops absorbing when it does. I would use all that you can use in 3-7 days and replace it. Smaller amounts and more frequent changes seem to work best.

Here is a quote from Dr. Holmes-Farley's phosphate article:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

I have a few other methods employed to bring it down as well. Was hoping this would get it low enough that they would be able to keep up. My fuge and biopellets should in theory do it. But I'll continue gfo as needed.

ETA the tank is 14 months running except for thr live rock added a couple months back. It should in theory be done leaching.

I'm going to siphon some of the sand out though.

jda · Oct 3, 2018

Organic carbon dosing does more for nitrate than phosphates... don't drive your nitrate to zero trying to lower phosphate.

If the rock is full of phosphate, then it will never be done leaching (unbinding) until the water level is at a low concentration for a long enough time. The rock will release to "equilibrium" and then stop... you have to lower the water/tank level to get the rock to release more.

Don't do too much sand at once. It is not good to disturb too much of the oxic and anoxic zones or else you could have some die off and a mini cycle.

Jl330 · Oct 3, 2018

I really should grab a hanna checker to monitor better.

Jl330 · Oct 10, 2018

Just popping back in to say the phosphates are back up around .5-1.0 after dropping to .25 briefly.

I swapped out the gfo but that's all I had left and I put it in a higher flow area.

I need to buy a bigger supply apparently. Are there any other methods for phosphate control?

Gregg @ ADP · Oct 10, 2018

That plastic light diffuser grid is your friend. If I have a tank with a pre-fabbed sump, I’ll modify the chamber so that there is a shelf upon which I can put media if there isn’t a reactor. Pretty easy to do. You can cut it to fit easily, and you can make it whatever height you want it by cutting ‘legs’ out of the grid and attach them to the shelf piece with zip ties.

A lot of people use socks, but I’m way over socks. I build a flow-through shelf under the drain line(s) upon which I can make whatever elaborate sandwich of filter pads and media that I want, and the water absolutely has to flow through it to get to the filter.

Cost? About $10

jda · Oct 10, 2018

Lanthanum Chloride is probably your only other option if you want fast. Chaeto/Fuge and water changes are good, but more to maintain low levels than remove a large amount of phosphate. Skimming heavy and resonsibly feeding are important too. If you want to continue with GFO, then you might need a few gallons of it and an active reactor - something like a smaller Phosban reactor and a cheap Lifeguard 400 pump will work. You are likely fighting aragonite that has a lot of phosphate bound to it, which can be significant and can take quite some time to remove. Pull the trigger on that Hannah Ultra Low before you get too low - being near zero is OK, but getting to zero can be a problem... the more accurate tool can really save you.

Gregg @ ADP · Oct 10, 2018

Jl330 said:
Just popping back in to say the phosphates are back up around .5-1.0 after dropping to .25 briefly.

I swapped out the gfo but that's all I had left and I put it in a higher flow area.

I need to buy a bigger supply apparently. Are there any other methods for phosphate control?

Check out my reply immediately below your reply quoted here.

A big part of the effectiveness of GFO (or any media) is the amount of water flowing through it and exposure of media to water. Getting more water through media makes it more effective/efficient.

Putting a sense media in a bag in a high flow area is better than putting it in a low flow area. But even then, water is going to want to go around it rather than through it. Absent a fluidized reactor, you need to find a way to force the water to be exposed to not just the media, but all the media.