GHA problem

[saullman]

I have a 45 gallon JBJ AIO tank with an algae problem. I am running a skimmer and doing regular water changes for nutrient export. I do not have a media reactor to run gfo, but I do have some rowaphos that I can put in a bag and sandwich it between some filter pad or put it in my sock. I just ordered a phosphate reducing filter pad to hopefully help out with my situation. Should be receiving it in a few days. I am blowing my rocks out with a turkey baster every few days which seems to have helped reduce algae growth. I have an MP10 for flow and I AI Prime HD for light which I run 9 hours a day (no reds or greens). I am buying all my water from my lfs (RODI and salt). I just had my water tested for phosphates at my lfs with a hanna and no phosphates present. However, I know that is a false reading. I recently bought 10 trochus snails 2 weeks ago to strengthen my CUC, but 7 of them already died. Is this normal for snails to die so fast? I asked for someone to mentor me, but nobody seems interested. I just can't win no matter what I do.

So here are my questions:

1- Water changes- Is it better to do a large water change or several small water changes to bring down nutrients?

2- Is it ok to run a phosphate reducing pad and rowaphos at the same time or is it too much?

3- should I be running carbon in my tank all the time?

4- I was told NOT to use a toothbrush to the rocks in the tank because I am just putting the nutrients back into the water column. Scrub rocks outside of tank with tank water. True or false?

5- why are my inverts (snails) dying so quickly? Is this normal? When I bought them I just temp acclimate them for about 30 min, but I've read different things saying that they should be temp acclimated and run a slow drip loop for 1-2 hours.

Sorry for all the questions. I am just to my wits end with this GHA.

 

[brandon429]

I have no doubt a 45 gallon tank can be rip cleaned into compliance, taken apart and algae killed, sand rinsed, all clouding gone (currently I bet there's clouding in both rocks and sand if we inspected with flow running)
we never starve a tank back to algae free, it hurts corals too much. In the gha fix threads I make, we test two rocks first for susceptibility proof, wait a week, then upscale what we already know works to the whole tank. You'll be free of gha fast.

whether it comes back is a function of continued design...not storing up waste vs storing it, if applicable

lets see pics

our animals don't die from rip cleanings, so that's how Id address the losses above, as variables.

We don't need po4 scrubbing media after a rip clean, so that variable gets removed too etc.

 

[saullman]

I have no doubt a 45 gallon tank can be rip cleaned into compliance, taken apart and algae killed, sand rinsed, all clouding gone (currently I bet there's clouding in both rocks and sand if we inspected with flow running)

Sand yes. Definitely some clouding. I do have a sand siphon that I can use on the sand. I was told to only siphon half the sandbed at one time. I do get GHA on the sandbed.

Rocks. Not much coming off of them since I've been using a turkey baster on them. I only have 3 large rocks in the tank.

 

[saullman]

Here are some pics. I can provide more if needed. Pics are taken on an iPad so I'm sorry about the quality. Lights are not on yet.

 

[brandon429]

How nice to see

That’s intercepting the issue early, not a prob so far. Love the coralline and pigmentation appearance of the rock, simply lift it out of the tank and scrape off with a knife, rinse off the algae. Jab it, un anchor it from the rock so the roots are scraped out, this is like a fish biting it in nature or an urchin rasping it off

On the former algae spot, put peroxide and let it sit a sec then just set the rock back in, that spot stays gone a long time.

The sand, you can either clean it all at once like we do and reset the tank all at once, or work in increments over time. There will be some clouding at the bottom of the sand since the grains are on the larger size but it’s not bad currently, can choose either way. Easy hand guiding here, well before the invasion nice intercept

Taking the tank apart for cleaning is ideal for long term re balance but if you don’t want to you don’t have to, that live rock can just be lifted out and set on the counter at any time for hand guiding.

No more hand guiding needed when we get lucky on balance, but until then, simple spot kill protects the tank. Using the lucky water tuning method up front isn’t required, the hard work method is first, direct access and kill, then the cruise control comes later with luck and or system maturity grazer balance etc

 

[saullman]

How nice to see

That’s intercepting the issue early, not a prob so far. Love the coralline and pigmentation appearance of the rock, simply lift it out of the tank and scrape off with a knife, rinse off the algae. Jab it, un anchor it from the rock so the roots are scraped out, this is like a fish biting it in nature or an urchin rasping it off

On the former algae spot, put peroxide and let it sit a sec then just set the rock back in, that spot stays gone a long time.

The sand, you can either clean it all at once like we do and reset the tank all at once, or work in increments over time. There will be some clouding at the bottom of the sand since the grains are on the larger size but it’s not bad currently, can choose either way. Easy hand guiding here, well before the invasion nice intercept

Taking the tank apart for cleaning is ideal for long term re balance but if you don’t want to you don’t have to, that live rock can just be lifted out and set on the counter at any time for hand guiding.

No more hand guiding needed when we get lucky on balance, but until then, simple spot kill protects the tank. Using the lucky water tuning method up front isn’t required, the hard work method is first, direct access and kill, then the cruise control comes later with luck and or system maturity grazer balance etc

Hey Brandon,
First I wanted to tell you that I really appreciate your helping me with my problem. I do have some follow-up questions for you.

1- when I scrape off the algae am I doing it outside of water like on the counter or I have a storage bin that I can fill with tank water from a water change. Which one should I do?

2- Please excuse me for being so ignorant about this subject, but when I use peroxide on the rocks am I just using it with a spray bottle? Or how does it get applied? And once it's on the rocks it's ok to just put it back into the tank without hurting the water quality, fish, or inverts.

3- The sandbed doesn't currently look bad because I am manually cleaning it by pulling up large clumps of algae from the sandbed. When you say to "reset" the tank do you mean going through another cycle?

 

[brandon429]

so glad you've managed the tank so far as you've done, its ripe for easy hand guiding like we'd step out and curb a couple dandelions if they popped up. you acted before invasion, so its guaranteed to get fixed mighty quick + after pics we like to collect~

1. its outside work. that rock isn't harmed by being in the air/sitting on your counter briefly. here's my whole reef being drained for 30 mins to demo strength of all reefs. old corals, in air, darn near jerky lol then back to life over and over, you'll be working but a few mins outside.





12 hours later my update vid shows happy normal reef. of course you don't have to be 30 mins in the air...just to show whats possible, so a 4 min scrap event is harmless. the peroxide is indeed applied any creative way you want, its all directly to target. I use a single dropper often.

the only sensitive organism to runoff peroxide is a cleaner shrimp, lysmata species/didn't see any so no major rinsing required its harmless as it dilutes into the rest of the tank.

nothing recycles if you change the sand, it just continues going off the bac from the rocks. we didn't need the sandbed bac as critical filtration.

 

[saullman]

so glad you've managed the tank so far as you've done, its ripe for easy hand guiding like we'd step out and curb a couple dandelions if they popped up. you acted before invasion, so its guaranteed to get fixed mighty quick + after pics we like to collect~

1. its outside work. that rock isn't harmed by being in the air/sitting on your counter briefly.

12 hours later my update vid shows happy normal reef. of course you don't have to be 30 mins in the air...just to show whats possible, so a 4 min scrap event is harmless. the peroxide is indeed applied any creative way you want, its all directly to target. I use a single dropper often.

the only sensitive organism to runoff peroxide is a cleaner shrimp, lysmata species/didn't see any so no major rinsing required its harmless as it dilutes into the rest of the tank.

nothing recycles if you change the sand, it just continues going off the bac from the rocks. we didn't need the sandbed bac as critical filtration.

Hey Brandon.
I do have a cleaner shrimp so what precautions do I need to take?

I think I will do a slow cleaning of the sandbed once the rock is out which leads me into my next question.

one of my rocks that has algae has corals glued to it. Some palys. How do you recommend to clean that rock?

 

[brandon429]

nice call, with a cleaner simply rinse off the treated area w saltwater before returning rock. its such a small amount, a drop or two diluted, prob wouldn't harm anyway but they're the known sensitives. its why we do external work yep

 

[brandon429]

on the palys just avoid the area, clean the others. you can apply perx to the surr areas if it has algae they're tolerant. if you fix all the areas but those for last, that's a safe 99% rework we can mess there later for touchups

 

[saullman]

nice call, with a cleaner simply rinse off the treated area w saltwater before returning rock. its such a small amount, a drop or two diluted, prob wouldn't harm anyway but they're the known sensitives. its why we do external work yep

How much should I dilute the peroxide?

 

[brandon429]

none, the 3% is straight on site application, its rather weak overall. I just put straight 35% over half a very expensive yellow monti sps plug, even that didn't kill it...yours is 3% so good to go even if you make a mistake.

If you dumped half the entire bottle into your running reef, it wouldn't kill the filtration bacteria and likely only the shrimp would die, rest would close up angry for about a week then re open. we wouldn't do that of course, we work externally and exacting like a dentist/focusing on plaque scraping and remediation (gha) and work around nontargets like corals, as a dentist would try and stay away from our gums but he still cleans them roughly at times, if accumulations require.

so for 3% just a couple drops on spots you rasped clean with a detailed knife tip, that gha stays gone a while, a good good while. Not forever, its not a one off kill here these are cycling organisms that boon and die back in cycles, this is an arrest cheat and an neat one at that because we don't have to test for a single thing.

the target can be killed simply because you are willing first, and secondarily bc its a nano. fix sand clouding/long term fix yep

 

[saullman]

on the palys just avoid the area, clean the others. you can apply perx to the surr areas if it has algae they're tolerant. if you fix all the areas but those for last, that's a safe 99% rework we can mess there later for touchups

Are u saying that I can clean the rock with the palys out of water and what is perx?

 

[brandon429]

peroxide, yes all the work is set rocks out on the counter, work detailed, leave palys alone we can work them later so its safe work. we can do it all besides them, then come back later after first round practice getting the rest cleared out.

 

[saullman]

peroxide, yes all the work is set rocks out on the counter, work detailed, leave palys alone we can work them later so its safe work. we can do it all besides them, then come back later after first round practice getting the rest cleared out.

Oh got it. Perx. Sorry I didn't put 2 and 2 together.

 

[brandon429]

what you are doing is a neat and new way of managing GHA> its still a rampant problem after 30 yrs because frankly we haven't changed much in the hobby regarding how the pros tell us to handle GHA.

starving it out works for some people, but not for others, its all variation. and in those starvation, po4 restricting attempts, we collect tons of threads that show bleached corals, headaches, leaving the hobby, massive cost invested to correct and hope it works, and no proof of the outcome.

but what we're doing here is polar opposite of all that, and better outcome too. all because you are willing #1 and #2 the tank can be accessed, you didn't reef so big that thirty excuses prevent you from simply commanding its outcome vs coaxing it. its brute force lol, as soon as another method becomes as predictable then we should switch to it

gha just loves to mop up/wick in its fronds and extensions lots of little detritus packets...becomes self-feeding/degrades on site via bacterial digestion and feeds the plant directly. directly killing it, robbing the plant of catchworthy surface area, is managing one of the causes of gha.

the other portion is the clouding of the rest of the tank, more of a long term tuning/growback thing. ours is the safe initial take-ground right off the bat.

 

[saullman]

what you are doing is a neat and new way of managing GHA> its still a rampant problem after 30 yrs because frankly we haven't changed much in the hobby regarding how the pros tell us to handle GHA.

starving it out works for some people, but not for others, its all variation. and in those starvation, po4 restricting attempts, we collect tons of threads that show bleached corals, headaches, leaving the hobby, massive cost invested to correct and hope it works, and no proof of the outcome.

but what we're doing here is polar opposite of all that, and better outcome too. all because you are willing #1 and #2 the tank can be accessed, you didn't reef so big that thirty excuses prevent you from simply commanding its outcome vs coaxing it. its brute force lol, as soon as another method becomes as predictable then we should switch to it

gha just loves to mop up/wick in its fronds and extensions lots of little detritus packets...becomes self-feeding/degrades on site via bacterial digestion and feeds the plant directly. directly killing it, robbing the plant of catchworthy surface area, is managing one of the causes of gha.

the other portion is the clouding of the rest of the tank, more of a long term tuning/growback thing. ours is the safe initial take-ground right off the bat.

Just wanted to thank you again for taking the time out of your day to help me. You are the first person that has truly cared about my problem. I am ready and willing to fight this battle and win. Hopefully with your help. Just give me a few days to work on the rocks. I will let you know my progress.

 

[saullman]

Received my phosphate reducing pad today. Will put it in tonight after work.

 

[brandon429]

just for tracking purposes, we never use those simply because declouding a system removes their need. Its not going to make algae worse for sure, it'll help stop regrowth. but using any form of phosphate sequester directly alters coral bleaching risk, less room for any other form of error. In no way do I think phophates of any measure matter when clouding is present, clouding causes/is the po4 we're trying to scrub with that media and its commonly overdone, to the challenge of corals never our target. that algae is nuclear gone now lol but if you want the safest measure, apply no extra filtration method.

 

[saullman]

just for tracking purposes, we never use those simply because declouding a system removes their need. Its not going to make algae worse for sure, it'll help stop regrowth. but using any form of phosphate sequester directly alters coral bleaching risk, less room for any other form of error. In no way do I think phophates of any measure matter when clouding is present, clouding causes/is the po4 we're trying to scrub with that media and its commonly overdone, to the challenge of corals never our target. that algae is nuclear gone now lol but if you want the safest measure, apply no extra filtration method.

Ok. I'll take your advice and not put it in. I'll just hold on to it.