Ghost Shrimp for Dwarf Lion

[Amateur Reefer]

Just got my first Dwarf Lion. I am thinking about keeping saltwater ghost shrimp in the fuge for feeding. My concern is whether (i) that will be sufficent and (ii) will the shrimp destroy my pod population.

I'm guessing my regular feed of reef nutrition mysis won't keep the dwarf lion happy.

Any suggestions?

 

[Bbfishb81]

I'd go with salt water guppies or saltwater mollies. I've had a lionfish, and he loved them. Liked them better then the shrimp I tried.

 

[Amateur Reefer]

Thanks. How hard are they to fish out of the fuge for feeding (and how often would you feed)? Would it destroy my pod population?

 

[lion king]

My lions mainly live on ghosties, the large ones gets mollies thrown in, and the small ones get guppies. There really is no need to keep them in saltwater, a fresh water setup is simple, no maintenance, and can be as simple as a bucket and sponge filter. Any one conflicted about fresh vs salt should have at least kept their lions for more than a decade.

Any salt water fare must be qt'd or inverts must come from a system without fish, or you risk spreading disease.

Most of have access to ghost shrimp that are kept in fresh water, although this variety does live in salt, you will get more losses and decrease of lifespan to acclimate them to your fuge. If you have access to saltwater shrimp, 1st verify they come from a fish free system and they will also likely be more expensive and will eat your pods.

Ghosties and regular feeder guppies can be kept in a simple set up and are not picky, mollies need a more stable environment. My fav food which is also used for what people call "gut loading" in Omega One micro pellets, you can also enhance them with chemi-vit in the water. You really don't need to get too extravagant to supplement one lion with live feedings. It's not a bad idea to try and get him taking a variety of chunky dead foods as well.

An arguement for feeding live foods

While I'm sure some have had long term success with some notoriously difficult to feed ambush predators, I have never met any in person. Fish like the dwarf and medium bodied lions, anglers, and scorpionfish from my experience tend to live longer in captivity, and be more active and vibrant...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Amateur Reefer]

My lions mainly live on ghosties, the large ones gets mollies thrown in, and the small ones get guppies. There really is no need to keep them in saltwater, a fresh water setup is simple, no maintenance, and can be as simple as a bucket and sponge filter. Any one conflicted about fresh vs salt should have at least kept their lions for more than a decade.

Any salt water fare must be qt'd or inverts must come from a system without fish, or you risk spreading disease.

Most of have access to ghost shrimp that are kept in fresh water, although this variety does live in salt, you will get more losses and decrease of lifespan to acclimate them to your fuge. If you have access to saltwater shrimp, 1st verify they come from a fish free system and they will also likely be more expensive and will eat your pods.

Ghosties and regular feeder guppies can be kept in a simple set up and are not picky, mollies need a more stable environment. My fav food which is also used for what people call "gut loading" in Omega One micro pellets, you can also enhance them with chemi-vit in the water. You really don't need to get too extravagant to supplement one lion with live feedings. It's not a bad idea to try and get him taking a variety of chunky dead foods as well.

Thanks! This is awesome advice! So now, my dwarf is in a mixed reef with a kole tang, a Valentini puffer and two clowns and a snowflake eel. Hooked up to the same system is a seperate reef with smaller fish and a seperate frag tank with two fish. I autofeed reef nutrition.

do you think I can just keep a few ghosts and guppies in a bucket with a filter and throw some in every couple of days or is this overkill? I do plan on getting at least one more dwarf lion.

 

[lion king]

His tank mates will make things a bit more complicated. The snowflake and valentini will not turn down a live offering. You will have to make sure your lion gets enough by blocking the valentini and snowflake from devouring everything before the lion can get some down. I use a rigid airline tube to block someone who is trying to be a pig. Competing for food is one of things that make it difficult keeping these guys longterm. Target feeding the lion will likely be necessary, he'll start to come up to you begging, and you can drop the food in front of him to give him an easier time to catch it. You might try getting him to eat other dead as well, these will also need to be targeted; lions will rarely if ever eat anything that hits the substrate, it needs to be moving or suspended in the water column.

Feeding 2 to 3 times a week until you see a nice bulge in his belly. I usually feed every other day and give it a third day if they eat really well on the previous feeding.

When Petco has the $1 gallon sale, you could get a 10g tank, airpump and sponge filter for less than $20, but a bucket is fine. Just place something for the ghosties to climb over rather than climbing over each other, I just put a couple extra pieces of sponge in the tank.

You do want to seed the sponge with freshwater bacteria, fw lfs usually have little bottles vert cheap. You don't have to cycle the set up, the ghosties and guppies can live through an ammonia spike long enough to get eaten.

 

[Amateur Reefer]

When you say no maintenance, I assume I still need to do water changes, right?

 

[lion king]

I never do water changes, I only top off with fresh water to make up for what I take out into a feeder container for the day's feeding. I can't even imagine it's 10% of the water volume over the week. You can smell the water if it gets bad enough to change, if your nose is especially sensitive you can even the smell an ammonia spike, then just a ml of prime and all is ok. Fresh water changes are a cinch anyway. I will gently rinse the sponge with tank water from time to time.

 

[ReefCAKE]

Thanks! This is awesome advice! So now, my dwarf is in a mixed reef with a kole tang, a Valentini puffer and two clowns and a snowflake eel. Hooked up to the same system is a seperate reef with smaller fish and a seperate frag tank with two fish. I autofeed reef nutrition.

do you think I can just keep a few ghosts and guppies in a bucket with a filter and throw some in every couple of days or is this overkill? I do plan on getting at least one more dwarf lion.

I would recommend just setting up a small cheap 5-10 gallon tank for the feeders, i set a 10 gallon up for like $40 from petco. One thing that was new to me with the Dwarf lions is that same species can be aggressive with each other depending on the sex of the lions. I lucked out thankfully but if I had the choice again I would add a different species.

 

[Amateur Reefer]

I'm reading posts from people that advise against feeding fresh water fish to salt water?

In any event, where is the best play to buy feeders? Going to petco and buying their overpriced guppies seems unncessary.

 

[ReefCAKE]

I would advise against saltwater feeders as these can transfer parasites and/or other disease. I use guppies and ghost shrimp from Petco. I now breed the guppies and just buy ghost shrimp. I make sure to take care of my feeders as I would any other fish in my reefs. I feed them quality food and make sure they are healthy. I gut load them selcon soaked food right before I feed. This is not my lions total diet, i feed live once per week. The rest of the time they get jumbo mysis soaked in selcon, with silversides or krill thrown in every so often. I would also recommend against buying anything labeled a "feeder fish" these are typically extremely unhealthy fish.

 

[tomxreef]

To piggy back, I am planning a separate sw system for feeder mollies. Just inverts, no sw fish. What would be the odds of transferring sw parasites to a dwarf lion? I don’t think it would be an issue if they are never exposed.

 

[lion king]

Right,

To piggy back, I am planning a separate sw system for feeder mollies. Just inverts, no sw fish. What would be the odds of transferring sw parasites to a dwarf lion? I don’t think it would be an issue if they are never exposed.

if the mollies come from a fresh water source and your salt setup has had no other fish in it, there would be no source of a chance of disease or parasites. Just be aware that many if not most sources keep fish with their inverts, so by chance an invert can transport ick or velvet into a tank. There is no need to run a salt water system for your feeder mollies, when you are ready to feed they will just swim off into your tank with no acclimation and live long enough to be eaten. I've done it and found absolutely no benefit.

 

[tomxreef]

Right,


if the mollies come from a fresh water source and your salt setup has had no other fish in it, there would be no source of a chance of disease or parasites. Just be aware that many if not most sources keep fish with their inverts, so by chance an invert can transport ick or velvet into a tank. There is no need to run a salt water system for your feeder mollies, when you are ready to feed they will just swim off into your tank with no acclimation and live long enough to be eaten. I've done it and found absolutely no benefit.

I was just wanting something in my invert system that actually swims. It’s located right next to the tank where the lion will be so figured why not have some mollies in there.

 

[lion king]

I was just wanting something in my invert system that actually swims. It’s located right next to the tank where the lion will be so figured why not have some mollies in there.

That sounds like a good plan.

 

[Amateur Reefer]

I never do water changes, I only top off with fresh water to make up for what I take out into a feeder container for the day's feeding. I can't even imagine it's 10% of the water volume over the week. You can smell the water if it gets bad enough to change, if your nose is especially sensitive you can even the smell an ammonia spike, then just a ml of prime and all is ok. Fresh water changes are a cinch anyway. I will gently rinse the sponge with tank water from time to time.

What does your feeder setup look like. Trying to figure out where to put mine. My fish room is full and the New Jersey winters won’t be kind to a grave setup.

 

[lion king]

I keep a plain 20l with a dual sponge filter and a couple pieces of sponge filter media floating around, just for something for them to crawl on. I put about 100 ghosties and 30 guppies in a week. My house gets pretty cold in the winter, I have a 50 watt heater and keep the tank around 70 degrees, as low as 68. They don't like getting much over 80 in the summer.

 

[Amateur Reefer]

Sorry to revive this post, but my first lion starved to death. Couldn’t get him to take good and kept running out of ghosties.

just got my second lion after a few months and going to try again. How many ghosties should he take each feeding?

 

[lion king]

Sorry to revive this post, but my first lion starved to death. Couldn’t get him to take good and kept running out of ghosties.

just got my second lion after a few months and going to try again. How many ghosties should he take each feeding?

Thats hard to answer, it depends on how big the lion is, and how big the ghosties are. You'll want to see a nice bulge in his belly, not huge, but noticable. Feed every 2 to 3 days. If you get in a bind, feeder guppies can be a substitute. If you have a fresh water lfs that gets varying sizes of mollies, mollies are actually a good food to add, just make sure it's size appropriate, not too big. Expensive, but in a real pinch, a peppermint shrimp will do. Feed him the ghosties that die, and he may at least take krill, don't feed him krill much as it will bind vit b1 and end badly.