Gill Flukes Won't Go Away

[Lil Puff]

Not a dip, it is used as a static bath. However, I do not have enough history with it to say if it is safe for use with invertebrates in a DT.
Jay

For the fresh water dip do I used distilled water?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

For the fresh water dip do I used distilled water?

I use tap water at the same temperature as the tank. Most tap water has a pH close to seawater, if yours does not, you’d need to adjust it.
Jay

 

[Lil Puff]

I use tap water at the same temperature as the tank. Most tap water has a pH close to seawater, if yours does not, you’d need to adjust it.
Jay

Do I need to add dechlorinator to the tap water?

 

[Lil Puff]

I use tap water at the same temperature as the tank. Most tap water has a pH close to seawater, if yours does not, you’d need to adjust it.
Jay

Just did the fresh water dip. What am I looking for that came off the grouper? What does the thing circled in red look like?

Update: I think its just detrius.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Just did the fresh water dip. What am I looking for that came off the grouper? What does the thing circled in red look like?

Update: I think its just detrius.

Neobenedenia looks kind of like that - flat scales. However, just one in a dip would mean the infection isn't heavy, so that would not account for the symptoms this fish is showing (you should see dozens of these if that were the case).
That said, if the symptoms improve tomorrow, then the dip did some good, and that points to some parasite. If the fish's behavior is unchanged, there is less of a chance that it is flukes.

Jay

 

[Lil Puff]

Neobenedenia looks kind of like that - flat scales. However, just one in a dip would mean the infection isn't heavy, so that would not account for the symptoms this fish is showing (you should see dozens of these if that were the case).
That said, if the symptoms improve tomorrow, then the dip did some good, and that points to some parasite. If the fish's behavior is unchanged, there is less of a chance that it is flukes.

Jay

The grouper passed this morning. He didn't have a very good reaction to the freshwater dip. He was unable to stay upright when back in the tank but he was breathing. After 4 hours in he was still laying on his side so I decided to try to feed him to see if he perks up. The shark went into hunting mode when he smelt the prawns and saw the grouper was in distress and tried to eat him but I intercepted and put the grouper in a breeding net. The shark only had the grouper in his mouth for a maximum of 5 seconds. Once in the breeding net he was still breathing but was laying on his side still. 9 hours later and he passed.

 

[Weeb]

Sorry for the loss. It was a nice fish.

I use RO water, temperature and pH adjusted for my FW treatments. How long did you dip this fish?

 

[Lil Puff]

Sorry for the loss. It was a nice fish.

I use RO water, temperature and pH adjusted for my FW treatments. How long did you dip this fish?

I used RODI water adjusted temp and dipped for 5 minutes. I aerated the water for 30 minutes before I put him in and left the aerator on during the dip. He was breathing the whole time and wasn't laying on his side - he was perched up.

 

[Aspect]

I used RODI water adjusted temp and dipped for 5 minutes. I aerated the water for 30 minutes before I put him in and left the aerator on during the dip. He was breathing the whole time and wasn't laying on his side - he was perched up.

Very sorry about your loss. Sounds like you did everything right, but some fish just had poor reactions to freshwater dips and the shark definitely did some damage. If you don't mind me asking where did you come across a Banded Sand Catshark?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

The grouper passed this morning. He didn't have a very good reaction to the freshwater dip. He was unable to stay upright when back in the tank but he was breathing. After 4 hours in he was still laying on his side so I decided to try to feed him to see if he perks up. The shark went into hunting mode when he smelt the prawns and saw the grouper was in distress and tried to eat him but I intercepted and put the grouper in a breeding net. The shark only had the grouper in his mouth for a maximum of 5 seconds. Once in the breeding net he was still breathing but was laying on his side still. 9 hours later and he passed.

Sorry to hear. If a fish dies after a FW dip that means it was pretty weak to begin with. Sorry we couldn’t track this down for you in time!
Jay

 

[Lil Puff]

Sorry to hear. If a fish dies after a FW dip that means it was pretty weak to begin with. Sorry we couldn’t track this down for you in time!
Jay

Thanks for the help anyways!

 

[Lil Puff]

Very sorry about your loss. Sounds like you did everything right, but some fish just had poor reactions to freshwater dips and the shark definitely did some damage. If you don't mind me asking where did you come across a Banded Sand Catshark?

I am from Australia where they are native here so we can get them from the pet shop. They only stay small - maximum 40-45cm so they are okay for smaller tanks and an easier shark to keep in aquariums.

 

[Aspect]

I am from Australia where they are native here so we can get them from the pet shop. They only stay small - maximum 40-45cm so they are okay for smaller tanks and an easier shark to keep in aquariums.

Wow that's really cool. If only I could get one over here to the states. Australia has tons of cool fish.

 

[Lil Puff]

Sorry to hear. If a fish dies after a FW dip that means it was pretty weak to begin with. Sorry we couldn’t track this down for you in time!
Jay

Do you think any of my other fish could have what the grouper had? They have all seemed to be better since the praziquantel treatment.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Do you think any of my other fish could have what the grouper had? They have all seemed to be better since the praziquantel treatment.

Well, obviously if they look improved that’s a good sign, but the grouper dying means there could be more than one issue going on, one that we haven’t been able to identify (yet).
So - no existing fish are showing any symptoms?
Jay

 

[Lil Puff]

Well, obviously if they look improved that’s a good sign, but the grouper dying means there could be more than one issue going on, one that we haven’t been able to identify (yet).
So - no existing fish are showing any symptoms?
Jay

The shark and lionfish have stopped flashing and the lionfish is back to begging for food all the time

 

[Weeb]

I used RODI water adjusted temp and dipped for 5 minutes. I aerated the water for 30 minutes before I put him in and left the aerator on during the dip. He was breathing the whole time and wasn't laying on his side - he was perched up.

Keep in mind that in the 5 min dip, an aerator isn't all that necessary. It is water surface movement that adds air (incl oxygen) into the water.

I'm frankly surprised the fish didn't do well in the FW dip. Maybe pH? Check the pH of your RODI water as it is now, please.

Like Jay wrote, maybe some other problem?

 

[Lil Puff]

Keep in mind that in the 5 min dip, an aerator isn't all that necessary. It is water surface movement that adds air (incl oxygen) into the water.

I'm frankly surprised the fish didn't do well in the FW dip. Maybe pH? Check the pH of your RODI water as it is now, please.

Like Jay wrote, maybe some other problem?

Ph of the RODI water is 8.03 so not that bad

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Ph of the RODI water is 8.03 so not that bad

The trouble with RODI is that it has no buffering capacity, so the pH can drop fairly quickly (probably not during a 5 minute dip).

I use tap water, drawn off at the correct temperature. I often don't even dechlorinate - the chlorine won't hurt the fish during that short of an exposure and then I know the water is as clean/sterile as I can get it. Aeration during the dip is important to keep the fish moving. That allows you to better assess the progress of the dip and it also helps dislodge some flukes, like Neobenedenia. Circulating the water would also work, but I don't like putting a fish too close to a powerhead intake.

FW dips are just a diagnostic tool - allowing you to see parasites in the dip (usually just Neo unless you use a microscope) or, as we hoped for in this case, seeing a temporary improvement in the fish, showing that the causative agent was a parasite that was affected by the dip - and then putting together a full treatment.

I don't think I mentioned on this thread; sometimes, when a fish has a severe fluke infestation, and you give it a FW dip, all of the flukes drop off at once. This leaves hundreds of tiny holes in the fish and it literally bleeds out. This can often be diagnosed by looking at the freshly dead fish's gills. If they are white, or pale pink, that indicates anemia and the fish may have bled out. I've experimented with giving the fish 2 minute dips, trying to knock of some of the flukes and then a few days later (after the skin has healed) giving another full dip to get the remaining ones to drop off. Trouble is, too much guess work is involved to get just a "partial drop off".

Jay

 

[Lil Puff]

The trouble with RODI is that it has no buffering capacity, so the pH can drop fairly quickly (probably not during a 5 minute dip).

I use tap water, drawn off at the correct temperature. I often don't even dechlorinate - the chlorine won't hurt the fish during that short of an exposure and then I know the water is as clean/sterile as I can get it. Aeration during the dip is important to keep the fish moving. That allows you to better assess the progress of the dip and it also helps dislodge some flukes, like Neobenedenia. Circulating the water would also work, but I don't like putting a fish too close to a powerhead intake.

FW dips are just a diagnostic tool - allowing you to see parasites in the dip (usually just Neo unless you use a microscope) or, as we hoped for in this case, seeing a temporary improvement in the fish, showing that the causative agent was a parasite that was affected by the dip - and then putting together a full treatment.

I don't think I mentioned on this thread; sometimes, when a fish has a severe fluke infestation, and you give it a FW dip, all of the flukes drop off at once. This leaves hundreds of tiny holes in the fish and it literally bleeds out. This can often be diagnosed by looking at the freshly dead fish's gills. If they are white, or pale pink, that indicates anemia and the fish may have bled out. I've experimented with giving the fish 2 minute dips, trying to knock of some of the flukes and then a few days later (after the skin has healed) giving another full dip to get the remaining ones to drop off. Trouble is, too much guess work is involved to get just a "partial drop off".

Jay

I think my lionfish might still have whatever the grouper had. The grouper died with its gills wide open as well as its mouth. I think I might use fenbendazole just in case. Can I put it in there food? How do I know what fenbendazole to buy online? Here is photos of the grouper when he died.
@Jay Hemdal