Gilroy 425g Build Thread (All Apex, all the time)

[Newb73]

Thats crazy.....You will rarely have to change those last two mixed DI units.....

I run Sed-Carbon-Carbon-RO-RO-DI-DI and I'll lose 2 inches of mixed DI in a month.

And yes, Rox 0.8.

I reduced my changes from every 2 weeks to once a month switching from black diamond to Rox .08

 

[Terence]

Thats crazy.....You will rarely have to change those last two mixed DI units.....

That's the hope. Just change out the anion mostly, then the canion, and most infrequently the two mixed. But, water will stay nice and clean for sure!

 

[Terence]

Flow graph from the eductor experiment currently underway:

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics Verified Sponsor]

OK, so I ran down to Ace to get two pieces of pipe to see how these new eductors might work - or not.

The sea-swirls have a 1.25" slip->1" threaded 90 elbow on them. This is what the sea-swirl comes with and I had a 1"-3/4" adapter screwed into, then the locline, then the locline nozzle. First tried to remove just the adapter and then held the educator there to see what would happen. It pulled way too much air as it was evidently too close to the surface. Strike 1.

I think with your first configuration you where really close. I agree that he 45 with nozzle protruding downward is pretty obtrusive.

Maybe go back to the 90, but find a way to drop the 90 so that the nozzle sits about .75 to 1 inch from the surface of the water. Then rotate the RFG nozzle so that one off the educator fins is pointed upward - towards the surface. With the fin pointed up, it adds just a tiny bit more distance from the educator opening to the surface, which can help mitigate air being drawing in as the educator becomes active.



I'll try and get my hands on the size sea swirl you have and see if i can come up with a solution that works for you.

 

[Terence]

Tried something else - 1.25" slip to threaded adapter -> 1.25"x1" adapter to 1"elbow to eductor. Still too far down.

I think the trick will be to cut down one side of a straight 1.25" coupler, push a 1.25"->1" bushing into that, then cut down a 1" elbow a bit on both sides, and then use eductor. Likely will cut at least a 1/4" off the eductor rear interface as well as that does not need to be that deep either.

Another weekend project though as this week is booked with lots of work and travel.

 

[wcharon]

Interested in this as well as I have the 3/4" Sea Swirl in my 125 tank.

 

[wcharon]

I think with your first configuration you where really close. I agree that he 45 with nozzle protruding downward is pretty obtrusive.

Maybe go back to the 90, but find a way to drop the 90 so that the nozzle sits about .75 to 1 inch from the surface of the water. Then rotate the RFG nozzle so that one off the educator fins is pointed upward - towards the surface. With the fin pointed up, it adds just a tiny bit more distance from the educator opening to the surface, which can help mitigate air being drawing in as the educator becomes active.



I'll try and get my hands on the size sea swirl you have and see if i can come up with a solution that works for you.

Interested in this as well as I have the 3/4" Sea Swirl in my 125 tank.

 

[ca1ore]

You guys do realize that the way educators/penductors work is not measurable by an inline flow meter. In fact, they will 'present' head pressure to the pump and lower the reading. But, the venturi effect that occurs in the tank to multiply flow clearly cannot be directly measured by the flow meters.

Maybe you already know this. If so ...... never mind.

 

[Terence]

You guys do realize that the way educators/penductors work is not measurable by an inline flow meter. In fact, they will 'present' head pressure to the pump and lower the reading. But, the venturi effect that occurs in the tank to multiply flow clearly cannot be directly measured by the flow meters.

Maybe you already know this. If so ...... never mind.

There are two things at play. 1. The amount of water flowing though the pipe. This is what is measured. 2. The amount of "in-tank flow" or active water movement created by a device. This #2 is what a eductor does - that is, it gets more water to ride along therefore moving more water inside the tank. That said, the amount of water turning over (#1) is what it is.

The constricted orifice on the eductor is what is bringing the flow number down - I did not measure it, but it appears to have the equivalent cross-sectional area (it is an irregular shape) of about 5/8" circle I think.

 

[Terence]

So, if you ever wondered if carbon makes a difference, take a look at my PAR in the tank with the only change being saturday night putting my carbon back online. About 8% more light is penetrating to the sensor now that it is less yellow. You can see it got somewhat better yesterday (24 hours) but today it is even better. Can't wait to see what it shows tomorrow. So cool to be able to see these effects using the Apex.

 

[ca1ore]

There are two things at play. 1. The amount of water flowing though the pipe. This is what is measured. 2. The amount of "in-tank flow" or active water movement created by a device. This #2 is what a eductor does - that is, it gets more water to ride along therefore moving more water inside the tank. That said, the amount of water turning over (#1) is what it is.

The constricted orifice on the eductor is what is bringing the flow number down - I did not measure it, but it appears to have the equivalent cross-sectional area (it is an irregular shape) of about 5/8" circle I think.

Ok so you did know LOL. Surprising how many people actually don't realize how they amplify flow. I use a pair on my tank, and they put quite a lot of back pressure on a pump that doesn't handle it very well. Not sure they're worth the aesthetics and I'm leaving them off next time around.

 

[bubbaque]

When you turn off your return does it drain your tank all the way down to where it sticks into the water? If so that seems like a lot of water for the sump to hold.

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics Verified Sponsor]

You guys do realize that the way educators/penductors work is not measurable by an inline flow meter. In fact, they will 'present' head pressure to the pump and lower the reading. But, the venturi effect that occurs in the tank to multiply flow clearly cannot be directly measured by the flow meters.

You are correct - it is hard to measure the true flow impact of educators/penductors. The Random Flow Generator, which is what Terrence it attempting to attach to his Sea Swirls, is even harder to measure since in addition to working like an educator, it also produces a very randomize flow pattern that constantly re-directs the stream as it exits the nozzle. This produces a lot of movement in a larger area than a standard educator/panductor nozzles can produce.

His flow numbers are pretty much what we saw when we flow tested the nozzles using our own Apex gear - about a 5-12% loss depending on the GPH. the higher the GPH the closer to the 10-12% of measured loss. But the amount of water it moves due to the educators and the way it moves it due to the interaction of what happens inside the nozzle makes up for the difference.

We can't wait to see what it does for the flow in his tank, once we find a suitable way to attach it to his Sea Swirl.

 

[Terence]

When you turn off your return does it drain your tank all the way down to where it sticks into the water? If so that seems like a lot of water for the sump to hold.

Check valve. That is nothing compared to 85 feet of 2” flex all draining back!

 

[Newb73]

So, if you ever wondered if carbon makes a difference, take a look at my PAR in the tank with the only change being saturday night putting my carbon back online. About 8% more light is penetrating to the sensor now that it is less yellow. You can see it got somewhat better yesterday (24 hours) but today it is even better. Can't wait to see what it shows tomorrow. So cool to be able to see these effects using the Apex.

This is why I run ozone 12-16 hours a day and can run my lights at lower settings.

 

[Newb73]

Check valve. That is nothing compared to 85 feet of 2” flex all draining back!

They work but I don't trust them not to slowly let water back through In the event of an extended power failure.

To prevent a flood I actually designed a Set up where the apex on battery back up senses the outage and after a few hours (before the batteries die) and proceeds to pump about 10g of water out of the sump.

Upon the power returning the ATO will time out after a few minutes and shut off.

I'd much rather come home to a low sump, a 0.3 drop in salinity and a noisy alarm than a flooded floor.

 

[Terence]

This is why I run ozone 12-16 hours a day and can run my lights at lower settings.

I used to run ozone. Both in the beginning of this tank as well as my previous 210 I ran from 2010-2012.

I may hook it back up again down the road.

 

[Terence]

They work but I don't trust them not to slowly let water back through In the event of an extended power failure.

To prevent a flood I actually designed a Set up where the apex on battery back up senses the outage and after a few hours (before the batteries die) and proceeds to pump about 10g of water out of the sump.

Upon the power returning the ATO will time out after a few minutes and shut off.

I'd much rather come home to a low sump, a 0.3 drop in salinity and a noisy alarm than a flooded floor.

For most every aquarium install I am not a fan of check valves. Unfortunately with this set up with 85 feet of pipe, it is a necessary evil. Just turning off the pump for maintenance or a feed mode would mean all that water goes back to the sump. If I get that much water back to my sump and it overflows, well that’s one of the great things about a dedicated FishCave with a concrete paver tile floor.

 

[ca1ore]

They work but I don't trust them not to slowly let water back through In the event of an extended power failure.

To prevent a flood I actually designed a Set up where the apex on battery back up senses the outage and after a few hours (before the batteries die) and proceeds to pump about 10g of water out of the sump.

Upon the power returning the ATO will time out after a few minutes and shut off.

I'd much rather come home to a low sump, a 0.3 drop in salinity and a noisy alarm than a flooded floor.

Yeah, check valves are crap. I've got a drawer full of them - Y's, ball check, flappers, spring loaded, even one with a small man inside (ok, maybe not) ...... all invariably fail to do that which you rely on them to do. Far better to either use a siphon hole (or two - dang snails) or just keep the mouth of the return right at the tanks surface. That's what I do and it's me proof LOL. Even 85' of 2" flex is only about 10 gallons.

 

[David Cher]

do you mind sharing the video on how fast is the effluent of the CR ?