Glue Before or After Cycle?

thatsruff · Jun 9, 2020

So, I am about to start cycling my rock in tubs. I more or less like this aquascape I put together (12x12x12, 7.5g).

Are there reasons I am not thinking of to NOT glue this together while it is dry, then put it into the cycle tub?

FortyFour44 · Jun 10, 2020

Just that it may break while you’re moving it around and you might have to do it over again.

SamMule · Jun 10, 2020

Imo, if you like it and want to keep it that way, glue it. While aquascaping my tanks, I had a very difficult time recreating a scape once it was torn down.

Auquanut · Jun 10, 2020

Seems like the glue/epoxy will adhere to the rock better while it's dry than after it's cured. Also, with a structure that small, you shouldn't have too much trouble if you're careful.

Awesome scape by the way!

Fezbearer · Jun 10, 2020

If you plan on gluing it, your best bet is to do it when its dry. Water makes superglue set insanely fast.

thatsruff · Jun 10, 2020

Fezbearer said:
If you plan on gluing it, your best bet is to do it when its dry. Water makes superglue set insanely fast.

Auquanut said:
Seems like the glue/epoxy will adhere to the rock better while it's dry than after it's cured. Also, with a structure that small, you shouldn't have too much trouble if you're careful.

Awesome scape by the way!

Thanks everyone! That all makes sense. Ideally I wouldn't glue most of it but with such a small tank/structure the rocks are also small and therefore somewhat unstable.

howme127 · Aug 26, 2020

Should you glue your rocks or not? I’ve been debating it. I have 40lbs I’m playing around with to get my shape. I’m worried about a rock falling over and scratching the glass. What’s the consensus?

I never did in the past, but I was absolutely shooting from the hip with no help around me. Thought I’d ask this time around.

Sisterlimonpot · Aug 26, 2020

howme127 said:
Should you glue your rocks or not? I’ve been debating it. I have 40lbs I’m playing around with to get my shape. I’m worried about a rock falling over and scratching the glass. What’s the consensus?

I never did in the past, but I was absolutely shooting from the hip with no help around me. Thought I’d ask this time around.

I am of the opinion if you want your structure to be solid, then cement the rock together with something like E Marco 400. Although it can be bonded in salt water, I would suggest doing it while the rock is dry and then cycle the rock.

SamMule · Aug 26, 2020

I vote glue. Make sure it is stable. Do you really want to risk cracked/broken glass?
However, glue the rock together in sections so that it is "serviceable"

howme127 · Aug 26, 2020

Sisterlimonpot said:
I am of the opinion if you want your structure to be solid, then cement the rock together with something like E Marco 400. Although it can be bonded in salt water, I would suggest doing it while the rock is dry and then cycle the rock.

Do you think some good old Bob Smith would work? BSi? I use so much of their stuff for work.

DSEKULA · Aug 26, 2020

I mortared all my rocks too much hassle with rock slides in the last build to not do it. Did them dry cycled and added to the tank. Now, I do have 155gal drop off with some huge pieces so there are pieces that were planned and fit together evethough they are one structure. I simply couldn't have one 21" tall rock structure that was 14" horizontally. I used stax rocks for parts to ensure everything sat very level and pieces that fit together really fit flush together. The center area where the drop off is has three pieces just because I couldn't manage one easily. Just putting it in would have been horrible.

howme127 · Aug 26, 2020

Oh wait! Mortar. Ah ok I’m doing it!

NeonRabbit221B · Aug 26, 2020

I took pictures of my aquascape before I placed them in a tub. You can absolutely glue then cycle if the tub is big enough.

DSEKULA · Aug 26, 2020

howme127 said:
Oh wait! Mortar. Ah ok I’m doing it!

Yes you want type s cement, reef sand, acrolite polymer(the additive that plasticises the mix) and water. Mix like normal mortar. Or just buy the Marco brand the kit comes with all that. I didn't just because I already had all the supplies laying around my shop.

NeonRabbit221B · Aug 26, 2020

TJDSEKULA said:
Yes you want type s cement, reef sand, acrolite polymer(the additive that plasticises the mix) and water. Mix like normal mortar. Or just buy the Marco brand the kit comes with all that. I didn't just because I already had all the supplies laying around my shop.

Why not just use epoxy...? Works well for me.

DSEKULA · Aug 26, 2020

NeonRabbit221B said:
Why not just use epoxy...? Works well for me.

Epoxy works well for some things but not so much for verticals or overhangs ime. Epoxy will also brittle over time a bit, again it depends on what your are using it for if this matters or not. Coraline does not grow so well on epoxy ime and makes the scape look a little odd due to this. Also, here's my full scape with all the rocks mortared (mostly) I could imagine it taking 20 or so tubes of epoxy vs the free stuff I had laying around. Mortar is also just generally much stronger of a bond.

NeonRabbit221B · Aug 26, 2020

TJDSEKULA said:
Epoxy works well for some things but not so much for verticals or overhangs ime. Epoxy will also brittle over time a bit, again it depends on what your are using it for if this matters or not. Coraline does not grow so well on epoxy ime and makes the scape look a little odd due to this. Also, here's my full scape with all the rocks mortared (mostly) I could imagine it taking 20 or so tubes of epoxy vs the free stuff I had laying around. Mortar is also just generally much stronger of a bond.

Good advise. My epoxy does annoy me from time to time. Might try mortar on my new build I am doing. Thanks!

DSEKULA · Aug 26, 2020

NeonRabbit221B said:
Good advise. My epoxy does annoy me from time to time. Might try mortar on my new build I am doing. Thanks!

Np, the other thing is you can also diy fake rocks like this or fill huge gaps. This is my new pico tank there is no real rock in it. The rock is a piece of pvc pipe that holds the filter covered in carved mortar. It opens so many diy possiblities. To make rock.with holes just add salt crystals to the mix (like for a water softener). After the fake rock is set keep rinsing with water and test the sg of the water when it's 1.000 or really close your added salt has been disolved leaving natural like holes.

NeonRabbit221B · Sep 5, 2020

TJDSEKULA said:
Np, the other thing is you can also diy fake rocks like this or fill huge gaps. This is my new pico tank there is no real rock in it. The rock is a piece of pvc pipe that holds the filter covered in carved mortar. It opens so many diy possiblities. To make rock.with holes just add salt crystals to the mix (like for a water softener). After the fake rock is set keep rinsing with water and test the sg of the water when it's 1.000 or really close your added salt has been disolved leaving natural like holes.

Bumping as I plan to do my aquascape. I got some of the e-marco mortar from BRS for my negative space rock structure.

For the salt crystals.. I don't have anything like water softener and the only purchase options are 50 lb bags for $30. Would aquarium salt or epson salt work similarly? Not sure about the grain size of the water softener.