Golden Pavona struggles

[foxt]

I have a long, frustrating history of killing frags of WWC golden pavona (Pavona Maldivensis). I can keep SPS, LPS, shrooms, rhodis, etc all just fine. But this coral? Nope. Help!

Usually, the frag will appear to be fine for 3-4 weeks in my frag quarantine tank, and then start to bleach. This happens in different combinations of light and flow. The current victim has been in the tank for 2 weeks. It is in medium flow, about 200 par. Alk=8.4, Ca=430, Mg=1400, PO4=0.08ppm, NO3=10ppm. I've tried frags when PO4 and NO3 were both lower, same result.

This morning, I noticed tissue loss in one small area, at the edge. It usually starts there, and then eventually the entire frag is lost. I haven't touched it in two weeks, and can go ahead and move it, but based on the fact that I have tried lots of other flow/light combinations in the past and failed, it feels a bit like throwing darts. Oh, and since I know I have this past history, I bought a frag of copper pavona at the same time and placed the two side-by-side. No issues with the copper version so far.

Should I try to stop the recession at this point with superglue, and hope for the best? What's your advice?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have a long, frustrating history of killing frags of WWC golden pavona (Pavona Maldivensis). I can keep SPS, LPS, shrooms, rhodis, etc all just fine. But this coral? Nope. Help!

Usually, the frag will appear to be fine for 3-4 weeks in my frag quarantine tank, and then start to bleach. This happens in different combinations of light and flow. The current victim has been in the tank for 2 weeks. It is in medium flow, about 200 par. Alk=8.4, Ca=430, Mg=1400, PO4=0.08ppm, NO3=10ppm. I've tried frags when PO4 and NO3 were both lower, same result.

This morning, I noticed tissue loss in one small area, at the edge. It usually starts there, and then eventually the entire frag is lost. I haven't touched it in two weeks, and can go ahead and move it, but based on the fact that I have tried lots of other flow/light combinations in the past and failed, it feels a bit like throwing darts. Oh, and since I know I have this past history, I bought a frag of copper pavona at the same time and placed the two side-by-side. No issues with the copper version so far.

Should I try to stop the recession at this point with superglue, and hope for the best? What's your advice?

Unlike most SPS, they prefer moderate water flow and feedings 3x per week
Calcium must be at level and temperature not above 80

 

[foxt]

Unlike most SPS, they prefer moderate water flow and feedings 3x per week

Thanks for the reply.

So maybe I've been starving these to death? Do I need to target feed? It's a frag tank, and I broadcast feed every couple of days with a variety of stuff such as oyster feast, acropower, reef roids, etc. I turn the pumps off and do this after lights out. This needs something different? I can't recall ever really seeing any polyp extension on any past specimens, and haven't seen it on this one either.

Temp is usually around 78. Since it's showing stress, I will move it to lower flow area, and will superglue the edges where the tissue has receded. Other than that, maybe I should just give up on these.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks for the reply.

So maybe I've been starving these to death? Do I need to target feed? It's a frag tank, and I broadcast feed every couple of days with a variety of stuff such as oyster feast, acropower, reef roids, etc. I turn the pumps off and do this after lights out. This needs something different? I can't recall ever really seeing any polyp extension on any past specimens, and haven't seen it on this one either.

Temp is usually around 78. Since it's showing stress, I will move it to lower flow area, and will superglue the edges where the tissue has receded. Other than that, maybe I should just give up on these.

They’re not challenging but moody
Oyster feast and rotifier feast also good
When moving- assure you place it where it will receive direct flow and light. They like medium to bright light

 

[ScottB]

When Maldivensis is happy it grows like crazy but the reverse is also true. I keep a bunch of it in my display and my frag systems which are very mature by now.

When I move it to "new" customer tanks it is really hit/miss. Mostly miss.

Maybe a benchmark is sponges. When you have them you are good. Without them, the biome is missing something they need. Whatever it is, it is a very binary outcome: happy or dead.

 

[foxt]

When Maldivensis is happy it grows like crazy but the reverse is also true. I keep a bunch of it in my display and my frag systems which are very mature by now.

When I move it to "new" customer tanks it is really hit/miss. Mostly miss.

Maybe a benchmark is sponges. When you have them you are good. Without them, the biome is missing something they need. Whatever it is, it is a very binary outcome: happy or dead.

Thanks for that insight. Sad to hear that it's hit/miss, but at least I can feel a little less bewildered. The system these have been consistently dying in is pretty mature - been up continuously for over 5 years. No sponges though, so maybe you're on to something.

I crazy glued the recessed area, thinking maybe it is some kind of bacterial thing and there was a wound there I couldn't see. The copper variety I have is in the same conditions as the golden, so we'll see what happens over the next few days.

What kind of light/flow do you get best results from? Josh at WWC tried to help me out at one point and described exactly where the mother colony for the golden frags I was buying from them were positioned - lower light, moderate flow. Other comments I have found on the forums suggest that for those who get it to thrive, it does so in a variety of lighting and flow.

 

[ScottB]

Thanks for that insight. Sad to hear that it's hit/miss, but at least I can feel a little less bewildered. The system these have been consistently dying in is pretty mature - been up continuously for over 5 years. No sponges though, so maybe you're on to something.

I crazy glued the recessed area, thinking maybe it is some kind of bacterial thing and there was a wound there I couldn't see. The copper variety I have is in the same conditions as the golden, so we'll see what happens over the next few days.

What kind of light/flow do you get best results from? Josh at WWC tried to help me out at one point and described exactly where the mother colony for the golden frags I was buying from them were positioned - lower light, moderate flow. Other comments I have found on the forums suggest that for those who get it to thrive, it does so in a variety of lighting and flow.

I find it to be very adaptive to lighting changes. 200-400 PAR are both suitable with some acclimation.

In terms of flow, I can confirm moderate and energetic will both work.

 

[foxt]

I find it to be very adaptive to lighting changes. 200-400 PAR are both suitable with some acclimation.

In terms of flow, I can confirm moderate and energetic will both work.

Thanks for that. Lighting varies, flow varies, so I'm likely just in the "miss" camp you pointed out earlier. My superglue job at least stopped the tissue recession that was underway for now.

 

[ScottB]

Thanks for that. Lighting varies, flow varies, so I'm likely just in the "miss" camp you pointed out earlier. My superglue job at least stopped the tissue recession that was underway for now.

At least one of those "miss" tanks struggled to keep measurable nutrients. Are you keeping at least some consistent traces for NO3 and PO4?

I've had it in "normal" and dirty nutrient systems okay.

 

[foxt]

Yup, pretty consistent around Alk=8.4, Ca=430, Mg=1400, PO4=0.08ppm, NO3=10ppm

 

[foxt]

The crazy glue halted the tissue recession. Frag is sitting in medium flow, and about 150 par. Now that it has stopped dying, I will move it to a bit brighter light and see what happens next.

 

[KrisReef]

The crazy glue halted the tissue recession. Frag is sitting in medium flow, and about 150 par. Now that it has stopped dying, I will move it to a bit brighter light and see what happens next.

Hey, great thread and interactive posting from a great crew with specific pavona knowldege. I am not that, but generally if I find an area where a frag is ok I will leave it there and wait for it to start growing, if ever. Constantly moving coral (they attach to reef boulders and remain in place in their natural setting) is going against nature and I would let it rest where it is (was?) at if it's doing ok. A relocated coral has to move energy around to modify their internal solar collector system as well as adjusting to changed current flow receptors to gather dissolved and drift born nutrients. Less movement is best, imo.
Sorry- I probably sound harsh & critical, please forgive my tone of concern as I do want to see your pavona thrive.

Only other things Mg @ 1400, I wonder if this coral doesn't like elevated Mg? Someone mentioned temps under 80F and 1400 MG isn't unheard of in our reefs but it is elevated above natural sea water.
Just wishing and fishing, thanks for considering, hth....

 

[foxt]

Only other things Mg @ 1400, I wonder if this coral doesn't like elevated Mg? Someone mentioned temps under 80F and 1400 MG isn't unheard of in our reefs but it is elevated above natural sea water.
Just wishing and fishing, thanks for considering, hth....

Thanks for the reply. I'm pretty stable with temps around 78. On the Mg, 1400 might be slightly elevated (within margin of error of Salifert test kit , but I have managed to hold it fairly stable for a long time mostly through a calcium reactor with magnesium media and not sure I want to tinker with it to see if it makes a difference.

Point taken about not moving the frag around too much. Turns out the with the way I have it lit at the moment in this frag tank, all I need to do is turn a dial on the kessel to bump the par a bit, so maybe I'll just bump it in smaller increments.

 

[foxt]

Two weeks later, and that frag is still alive. It is sitting in about 150 par, moderate flow. The area where I crazy glued the the tissue to get it to stop receding seems to have actually encrusted over a little bit, so maybe it's growing ever so slowly. I will continue to increase par slowly and watch for how it reacts.

 

[ScottB]

Two weeks later, and that frag is still alive. It is sitting in about 150 par, moderate flow. The area where I crazy glued the the tissue to get it to stop receding seems to have actually encrusted over a little bit, so maybe it's growing ever so slowly. I will continue to increase par slowly and watch for how it reacts.

Good update.

I am beginning to realize (or believe) that pavona just don't like to be moved. It is a pattern I see with some of my chunks & frags. They take a while to settle. I am constantly moving stuff around between tanks and these get sulky for a while and then resume growing.