Goldflake angel in trouble?

[Flame2hawk]

I have FOWLR display on 2.0ppm copper for 2 weeks now. Planning on another 2 weeks but.... The Goldflake angel is showing signs of stress to include feeding unenthusiastically, listless swimming (sometimes a quick circle and a bit unbalanced as he descends) and hiding in the rocks. Not normal behavior for sure. Also noticing that the emperor angel is showing some early signs of stress also with vertical “glass surfing” movements. He’s still eating robustly while the GF is eating lethargically. Thinking it might be time to slowly take copper out with large water change and carbon and hope that the 2 weeks at 2.0ppm did the trick in treating suspected ich/or velvet. No signs of any parasites at this time......I know the protocol is 30 days but the stress might kill the angel’s. (FYI-no twitching, flashing, spots or powdery substance). I’m worried as these are my favorite fish. The tank is very large, almost 8’ long, so there’s plenty of room and water volume...

 

[Big G]

Were you treating for a specific parasite or prophylactically?

I'd get that beautiful fish out of copper as 14 days is enough for velvet, Ich. Move to a clean QT and observe. The fish's immune system has been suppressed by the copper. High quality foods + vitamins. Highly recommend adding Beta Glucan to the food. It's a tremendous boost to immune systems. Heck, my fish, wife and I all take it to support our immune systems. Info below of BG:

Feature Article: Beta Glucan As A Biological Defense Modulator: Helping Fish To Help Themselves

Wouldn’t it be great if there were one thing that we could give any sick fish that could help it? Aquarists dream of a “magic bullet” that could be used as a treatment for a plethora of problems.

www.advancedaquarist.com

This is the particular type, it's algae derived. I get it from Amazon.

 

[Flame2hawk]

I had him in a 40g breeder and he got lymph and was stressed because tank too small.....he went into display and was doing good until yesterday when i observed the behavior described above. The choices are remove goldflake and put back in same 40g breeder where he was stressed or do a 120 g water change (display is 625g and add carbon so that all fish start getting relief? What do you think?

 

[Big G]

Copper can be tough on angels. Usually like to remove sensitive fish after 14 days into a clean, sterile QT to quickly see if previously infected fish will present again signs of ich or velvet. So slowing removing copper you'll lose that ability to quickly see if the treatment was successful. That's a tough call after all that work.

I'd probably pull the copper and hope for the best for the fish showing sensitivity. Afterwards, for peace of mind, you could do the Black Molly Test to check for any parasites having survived the copper.

 

[Flame2hawk]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH CAPTAIN.

I am now leaning on capturing Gf (that w/b a task without stressing him out) and putting him the 40g breeder again. I have some Anthias in there but they all look good. I will watch him closely, do frequent water changes and put him back in display after I pull out a bunch of copper in 2 weeks.....wish me luck! I have to save the GF...he’s a beautiful 7 inch specimen.....

 

[Big G]

That is a beautiful fish.
Sometimes it's best to net fish after they have gone to sleep. Wait until the tank and room has been dark for a couple of hours. Using a small flashlight, find the fish and shine the light into the eyes and keep it there. It will mesmerize the fish making netting usually pretty easy.

 

[Flame2hawk]

Wow I thought I only knew that trick! Some time ago I was told by many fellow hobbiest that I wouldn’t be able to catch all my fish with all the rock and space. I was successful in capturing all of them by using various methods....some using a clear container and adding nori to lure them and others at night after they were “sleeping”. Took me 2 days of patience but no extra stress on the fish.

Anyway, I will feed some sponge in a little while and if they continue to eat, even if half hearted, I think I will wait it out a bit longer and ibserve closely. The good thing is that I am home for the next 2 weeks so can be very attentive and take immediate action if needed.....I will probably sleep by the tank for a while ( dont let my wife see this!). Thank you again and please do offer feedback on my latest thoughts.....

 

[Flame2hawk]

This again Big G....I’m glad you’re around as no one else seems to really respond to my posts on this particular thread )treatment and diagnosis). Other threads yes..

 

[Flame2hawk]

So GF continues to eat well but appears a bit stressed. He’s sensitive to lights when they are on. Does copper do that? He’s is doing a fair share of glass surfing up and down and side to side. Rest of fish dont seem to be bothered by the lights and are no longer glass surfing (emperor did it for a bit but has now setllled down) Should I be worried with GF surfing and light sensitivity? Again eating well. This is a bit stressful....thx

 

[Big G]

Glad to hear it is eating well. GF really like to hang out in caves. Perhaps the darkness helps them to relax.

 

[Flame2hawk]

Thx. I suppose should stay the course as long as he’s eating well?

 

[Big G]

Thx. I suppose should stay the course as long as he’s eating well?

Can you get some sponges for the GF to munch on? Anglelixir by Brightwell has sponges in its vitamin mix.

 

[Flame2hawk]

You are a wonderful fountain of useful information. Thank you.

I have been spoon feeding frozen sponge formula ( hikari & ocean nutrition) soaked in selcon. Will sprinkle the pure synergy when i receive it (order delayed). I will look into Angelixir. Thx again!

 

[Flame2hawk]

Just ordered the elixir. Thx again.

 

[Flame2hawk]

Eating a bit less robustly today but still eating. Still glass surfing even with the lights off.....

 

[Flame2hawk]

A bit nervous....

 

[Flame2hawk]

Its day 22 of copper in my display and now fish are acting a bit more stressed. More are glass surfing and eating sparingly. Up until today they ve been well except GF which has been surfing for a while althought eating robustly until today when he ate sparingly. Even though its day 22, what are the chances that ich or velvet will come back if i start pulling copper back. I’ve always been a bit curious as to why its recommended that you treat ich or velvet w/ copper for 30 days when it appears the parasite cycles in 14 days? Big G and others-Your thoughts appreciated....thank you

 

[Flame2hawk]

Just to give you an update...the GF was glass surfing relentlessly so he was moved to 1 55g QT. He continued to not eat and glass surfing as much as ever. Upon closer observation I noticed he had bad strings of white and clear poop..yes internal parasites. Had to treat water column with General cure as he was not eating. Fed a little bit of everything to entice him. After 2 doses of GC and 7 days later he started to eat sparingly mysis and HPD food soaked in fenbendozole & metroplex. Today on day 9 he started to eat robustly! & while still doing some surfing its not as frantic....I still have not done a water change although GC instructions said to do that 48 hours after 2nd dose. Nitrates a bit high but he’s eating like crazy and modified process is working.....Thx for all your help & lets hope we are now on a steady path toward a happy ending and saving this beautiful fish..... thx again!