Good afternoon guys need some opinions on trace elements.

[Danroo]

Regarding trace elements ( minor ) I did some research and found out loads of problems with replenishing it for a 20 gallon mixed reef. BRS tv claims that water changes aren’t sufficient for keeping up with trace elements. Does this apply for nano tanks as well?

would be a lot easier for me to never had this problem but my tanks consumption of the major trace elements is slow but the minor ones get depleted fast.

I avoided water changes to check this theory out and I was right consumption on other trace elements barely took a hit I tested out my tank every week the major elements showed as:

Nitrates: 0ppm

Phosphates: 0.02 ppm

Alkalinity: 8.1

Calcium: 430 ppm

Magnesium: 1410 ppm

salinity: 1.026 ppm

these were my readings for a month without any water changes and I still almost lost my montepora.

for a second I thought it was lighting or flow but it was the trace elements being depleted. Montipora jumped back after I did the water changes and started to grow.

my question originally is should water changes will be enough for a small tank like this cause I don’t want to dose something that I can’t test.

 

[Reefer Matt Verified Media Partner]

Regarding trace elements ( minor ) I did some research and found out loads of problems with replenishing it for a 20 gallon mixed reef. BRS tv claims that water changes aren’t sufficient for keeping up with trace elements. Does this apply for nano tanks as well?

would be a lot easier for me to never had this problem but my tanks consumption of the major trace elements is slow but the minor ones get depleted fast.

I avoided water changes to check this theory out and I was right consumption on other trace elements barely took a hit I tested out my tank every week the major elements showed as:

Nitrates: 0ppm

Phosphates: 0.02 ppm

Alkalinity: 8.1

Calcium: 430 ppm

Magnesium: 1410 ppm

salinity: 1.026 ppm

these were my readings for a month without any water changes and I still almost lost my montepora.

for a second I thought it was lighting or flow but it was the trace elements being depleted. Montipora jumped back after I did the water changes and started to grow.

my question originally is should water changes will be enough for a small tank like this cause I don’t want to dose something that I can’t test.

I would stick to water changes only in a 20 gallon tank, unless it is packed with sps, then it would need 2 part dosing as well.

 

[Danroo]

everything is small atm besides my toadstool and zoas. Growth is slow same with my coralline. I guess the growth was halted when I stopped doing water changes for longer periods of time.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The story of trace elements is more complex than most people discuss.

BRS only discusses a small portion of the trace element story, if they just focus on water changes or dosing to maintain natural levels..

First, foods add a lot of trace elements. Maybe enough in many cases. Since many folks keep fine reef tanks without dosing trace elements, how can that be? Because it's way more complicated than assumed.

Second, there's almost no info in what levels of any trace elements are actually needed for any given organism. True, a water change cannot maintain the same level as exists in the new salt water. But can it maintain 10% of that level? Is that enough?

There's no perfect answer for trace elements.

ICP can give info on what is present, but not if what is present is enough or not.

Unless you want to go the ICP route, I'd suggest trying a high quality trace element and dose it per instructions, and see if there is apparent benefit.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Also, be sure we are talking about trace elements here. Magnesium, calcium, and alkalinity are not trace elements.

Trace elements are ions at low levels like iron, manganese, etc., hence the name "trace". There's only a trace present.

 

[Danroo]

Yup I knew the usual cal, alk and magnesium. Which were good, that’s why I started avoiding water changes for so long. I started losing lps corals thinking it was due to my light or flow. I just didn’t knew at that time trace elements are entirely different a most important as well.

BRS mentioned about that trace elements get used up 100% in our tanks, so if I am doing 25% water it won’t make a difference in the long run. It could work for couple of years but once those corals become huge more trace elements will be consumed.

in my case my softies are the biggest ones, my toadstool and my zoas are covering the entire rocks and I’m sure they’re the ones consuming trace elements compared to my sps and lps. This is why my cal, alk and magnesium is consumed very little. With water changes they do bounce back like my montipora which I thought was a goner as well if I didn’t do weekly water changes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

BRS mentioned about that trace elements get used up 100% in our tanks, so if I am doing 25% water it won’t make a difference in the long run. It could work for couple of years but once those corals become huge more trace elements will be consumed.

Reality is often more complex than a BRS video, and in this case there are many aquaria that are proof that it is not the whole story.

Some trace elements dosing may be beneficial in some or many aquaria, and I think it is often worth experimenting in your system, but the situation is not nearly as simple as the summary you gave if the BES video for the reasons I gave above.

 

[Danroo]

Reality is often more complex than a BRS video, and in this case there are many aquaria that are proof that it is not the whole story.

Some trace elements dosing may be beneficial in some or many aquaria, and I think it is often worth experimenting in your system, but the situation is not nearly as simple as the summary you gave if the BES video for the reasons I gave above.

I agree, I was thinking about grabbing Red Sea trace colors abcd and do some little dosing every week just to results. I’m just not fond for an icp test and don’t wanna nuke my tank in the process.

 

[PeterEde]

I've just started dosing trace. (Reef Anabilics) in my 30 gallon
This is mixed in with Randy's 2 part.
Still early days

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I agree, I was thinking about grabbing Red Sea trace colors abcd and do some little dosing every week just to results. I’m just not fond for an icp test and don’t wanna nuke my tank in the process.

That sounds like a fine plan.

 

[Dan_P]

The story of trace elements is more complex than most people discuss.

Possibly a question with no simple answer but give it a try. When did the hobby become dissatisfied with the idea that water changes replaced trace elements?

Did marine science drive the dissatisfaction? One of the hobbies experts? Vendors jumped on board quickly with the “we need to dose trace elements”, but maybe that came after the need rather than them generating the need for a product.

 

[ninjamyst]

No way to know that your issue was trace element. Maybe the water change removed some kind of impurity from your water.

 

[SPS2020]

Two suggestions:

How old is the tank? You don't need to dose anything if under12-18 months.

Never dose anything for which you cannot test. It's tantamount to trying to guess PAR. You seem to snub an ICP test, but that (IMO) should be your starting point for a base line. I'd suggest Triton.

 

[SPS2020]

my tanks consumption of the major trace elements is slow but the minor ones get depleted fast.

How do you know minor trace elements get depleted fast?

 

[Uncle99]

I agree, I was thinking about grabbing Red Sea trace colors abcd and do some little dosing every week just to results. I’m just not fond for an icp test and don’t wanna nuke my tank in the process.

I tried this “program” for a year on a DT 4 years old and only serviced by ALK, CA and MG and a 10% water change weekly.
I could find absolutely no difference whatsoever in using this product.
I have discontinued about a year ago now, still, not visible changes.
Sometimes less is more.

 

[Danroo]

I did add carbon two weeks back thinking it might be my toadstool or zoas creating toxins. It could be that or water changes.

 

[MnFish1]

Possibly a question with no simple answer but give it a try. When did the hobby become dissatisfied with the idea that water changes replaced trace elements?

Did marine science drive the dissatisfaction? One of the hobbies experts? Vendors jumped on board quickly with the “we need to dose trace elements”, but maybe that came after the need rather than them generating the need for a product.

Trace elements have been sold for a long time - BUT - IMHO the Triton method/no water change methods have caused a 'bump' in their recommended use.

To the OP - completely agree with Randy - I have used them and not used them and saw no difference. I now assume the foods I use provides all the trace elements needed. Good luck

 

[Danroo]

How do you know minor trace elements get depleted fast?

Cause my alkalinity, calcium and magnesium is consumed slowly. There could be impurities in my tank that might was causing my montipora to bleach out due to no water changes. I just came to the conclusion of trace elements, I’m no expert on this but both could be a possibility.

 

[Danroo]

Trace elements have been sold for a long time - BUT - IMHO the Triton method/no water change methods have caused a 'bump' in their recommended use.

To the OP - completely agree with Randy - I have used them and not used them and saw no difference. I now assume the foods I use provides all the trace elements needed. Good luck

This is what I’m confused about, I’ll try Red Sea abcd and see if I noticed any difference in growth.

 

[SPS2020]

This is what I’m confused about, I’ll try Red Sea abcd and see if I noticed any difference in growth.

Without an ICP test, you are shooting rubber bands at the stars. Just my .02 and YMMV. Too much of a particular element and you could have an outbreak of something undesirable.