Good Bacteria vs Good Bacteria?

[Charley]

A bit confused.....there are several great products such as Dr. Tim's, Vibrant, Continuum and others that if I understand correctly all use good bacteria. Why not use several of these brands concurrently and load the tank with all kinds of good bacteria?

Battling a dinoflagellates outbreak, using some of the above and blackouts and tank has never looked better. Still have dino's quite sure but they are beaten down.

 

[brandon429]

You could do that if you wanted, it would take consistent re-refreshment of the dosers since those bacteria don't occur naturally in our tanks/in the levels attained by those dosers

those bacteria are often a mix of various strains doing varying jobs...nitrifiers don't degrade sludge, and sludge digesting bacteria strains don't necessarily nitrify either

water changing and detritus removal is the workaround for having to add sludge digestors

removing an invader by hand with other types of cheats are commonly used to beat invasions vs adding bacteria strains...they're not harmful to add but they don't always work for invasions so people will use a range of approaches to fight various invasions.

the reason I wont use those products is because its just easier to make the tank's natural complement of bacteria be enough, saves $ and hassle. others prefer to work less with actual physical export, and use bacteria to break down particles so that natural currents and filtrations schemes in the tank are better at export.

all those bacteria are oxygen consumers, at some point after dosing a bunch of them mixed into solution and sustaining that it becomes another loading against 02 which in the night phase might mean something. there's a bunch of various forms of these dosers coming to market...little dissolving strips, gels etc, all the same stuff just different delivery systems. Large tanks might have a little more use for such experimentation due to inability to access the tank. nano reefers would see these dosers as optional, since 100% water change fixes any known issues and is easy to run in a nano if needed.

 

[Charley]

thanks for the info......never understood why the constant dosing of the good bacteria.....dont they simply gain a foothold and multiply on their own?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

thanks for the info......never understood why the constant dosing of the good bacteria.....dont they simply gain a foothold and multiply on their own?

Unless you have a problem of some sort, there's no reason to think a tank is deficient in "good" bacteria (whatever that may mean).

If the balance has becomes tipped where some organism (say dinos or cyano) is causing a problem, and if that organism might be outcompeted by a more benign type of bacteria that you might add, then it may be useful.

 

[Charley]

Can good bacteria's compete for "space" or do they simply coexist? I would assume there are millions of strains of good bacteria

 

[saltyhog]

Be careful, these concoctions can have the effect of lowering your nutrients and this seems to be (at least for most) the trigger for dinos. None of these products reveal what bacterial cultures are in their product so we have no way of knowing whether using multiple ones does a thing. One of those products was at least concurrent with my dino outbreak if not contributory.

Like Randy said, no reason to think they're needed unless you have an issue.

 

[Charley]

Is it as easy as putting theses products under a microscope and identifying the strains of bacteria? Just seems so very mysterious.

Yes, heard that keeping a tank so nutrient free can cause a dino outbreak. Which then is confusing now unto itself. Keep it clean to help with SPS but I guess some phos and nitrates in reality is more desirable. Sigh..... I need a drink!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Can good bacteria's compete for "space" or do they simply coexist? I would assume there are millions of strains of good bacteria

They compete for many things, including space, foods, trace elements, etc.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Is it as easy as putting theses products under a microscope and identifying the strains of bacteria? Just seems so very mysterious.

Yes, heard that keeping a tank so nutrient free can cause a dino outbreak. Which then is confusing now unto itself. Keep it clean to help with SPS but I guess some phos and nitrates in reality is more desirable. Sigh..... I need a drink!

Even before identifying, I think defining what is a good and what is a bad bacteria is nearly impossible, except for a few obvious bad actors. Our biology understanding of reef tanks is not there yet. And don't hold your breath since we aren't really even there for people yet.

 

[Charley]

That's a very interesting note, bordering on alarming........seems like the people who sell the good bacteria type products have, in their minds anyway or perhaps on some solid research, one should hope have identified some good ones? Aren't these products simply liquid probiotics?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

That's a very interesting note, bordering on alarming........seems like the people who sell the good bacteria type products have, in their minds anyway or perhaps on some solid research, one should hope have identified some good ones? Aaren't these products simply liquid probiotics?

They are sold for specific purposes, such as adding nitrifying bacteria. By definition, nitrifying bacteria are "good" in that context, but unless you are cycling a new tank, they are not needed or useful, typically.

 

[Charley]

Do these bacteria that are added die off? do they linger? do they multiply? Thought I read somewhere they inhabit and live in the rockwork which then means they are always around once added?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Do these bacteria that are added die off? do they linger? do they multiply? Thought I read somewhere they inhabit and live in the rockwork which then means they are always around once added?

I expect all of those things happen.

 

[brandon429]

agreed
same as when we put our arms or hands in the tank, or sneeze near it, we're exchanging constantly with these vessels. sometimes what we extract out on our arms and hands can be detrimental too (marine-specific infection threads)

many of the additives have a particular target they deplete in the tank, then they become part of the biota exchange that is relative to our surroundings and common vectors/additions etc. I bet they become bioloading at some point as well, Im not really ever going to be a shopper of bottled bac save for the occasional dry rock speed cycle if ever...what our tanks naturally seed and support is amazing and vastly enough in my opinion, based on the type of maintenance Im willing to do.

 

[Charley]

Randy and Brandon, thanks so much for your feedback. Interested in this since my initial dino outbreak about 6 weeks ago. They came back about a week ago. Thought I had them beat with a 3 day blackout and Dr. Tim's waste away which I used at the initial outbreak. Though it didn't knock them out quite yet, the tank looks awesome. everything survived beautifully. About a week ago they came back, not so bad, did a 4 day blackout and now added Dr. Tim's plus Vibrant. So far ok I think. Vibrant of course, per their deal, is to use for a good few weeks and also hope its the dino strain that it helps with. So I am playing whack a mole with dinos and plan on wiping them out eventually with overwhelming goodness and hopefully enemies such as copepods. Kinda happy in some odd way because other than perhaps an initial outbreak of these things, tank looks great, who knew.

I am sure I am creating a disaster waiting to happen but those dino's are not going to rest easy! Really do not want to go the way of bleach, which seems to be almost surefire but so toxic.

 

[Bunnee911]

I beat mine by feeding heavy and using a uv filter.
It was a macro tank and just used up all the nutrients.
My caulerpa went sexual over night. It looked like
Someone poured chocolate milk in there.

 

[Charley]

Yes, seems like people have had good results using UV sterlizers........could be a next step. I am hesitant to use now because dosing good bacteria and I think the UV will kill them off..