Gorgonian problems

[dennis romano]

I read through your posts a couple of times. The one thing that you did not mention is flow. I have found that gorgs are sensitive to flow. Too much will kill some. Not enough, they tend to close up. Orientation to flow is also important. Flat ones prefer a moderate flow perpendicular to their face. Bushy ones don't seem to care about orientation but hate heavy flow. I accidentally killed two by placing them in too strong flow. My guess is that over time, the flow wasn't strong enough or decreased in the original tank. When moved to the new tank, the flow was more to their liking. I have seen this several times when moving gorgs from one of my tanks to another.

 

[WVNed]

I read through your posts a couple of times. The one thing that you did not mention is flow. I have found that gorgs are sensitive to flow. Too much will kill some. Not enough, they tend to close up. Orientation to flow is also important. Flat ones prefer a moderate flow perpendicular to their face. Bushy ones don't seem to care about orientation but hate heavy flow. I accidentally killed two by placing them in too strong flow. My guess is that over time, the flow wasn't strong enough or decreased in the original tank. When moved to the new tank, the flow was more to their liking. I have seen this several times when moving gorgs from one of my tanks to another.

Video I posted above. Here is the flow in both tanks

 

[dennis romano]

Waaaayyy too much flow in the big tank. The gorgs were basically beaten to a pulp. They prefer a more moderate flow. Luckily, the types that you have can tolerate stronger flow. When you moved them to the tank with less flow, they just got real happy.

 

[DeniseAndy]

Yes, I did forget that point too. Fantastic point! Flow direction and type is all very important to many gorgs. I had to place mine very specifically for each one. Some trial and error on my side.

 

[WVNed]

They were glued in their spots more than a year and a half ago and have always been fine there.
I put the 14k bulbs in in June 2020 according to my build thread. The problems started in March, 9 months later. I had assumed the bulbs were toast.
7-10-20

 

[Eagle_Steve]

I was gonna say flow, but looking at now and then, it is about the same. Lighting could be the issue, but doubt that much of an issue.

How are no3 and po4 in the tank? Any difference from when they looked good in that tank to now? I know they share the same sump, but wondering if it combined with bulb changes may have something to do with it.

You got quite a few serious gorg keepers stumped for the moment lol.

 

[WVNed]

I was gonna say flow, but looking at now and then, it is about the same. Lighting could be the issue, but doubt that much of an issue.

How are no3 and po4 in the tank? Any difference from when they looked good in that tank to now? I know they share the same sump, but wondering if it combined with bulb changes may have something to do with it.

You got quite a few serious gorg keepers stumped for the moment lol.

It is hard to answer your questions because this has gone on several months. I have changed things in that time looking for a solution.
Perhaps I need to stop some of them and go backwards.

My po4 is lower now. I started GFO in a reactor and LCl use . It is O.03. My No3 is 10.
I used to keep it 0.1 and 5. The nitrates increased when the p04 went down.

A large algae outbreak occurred about the same time this started but I thought that was due to the light going yellow from age.

The flow is different. I am now pushing water from each end by adding 2 more MP60s. Then I had 2 Tunze 6150s on the back pointed at the center of the front. The flow is much rougher now at each end of the tank.
It is much better in the center of the tank. That is where the small gorgs were that died.

I was doing tank maintenance. When I was done I fired up the MP60s and the Purple Fan came unglued.
So I took it out and stuck it in the other tank thinking I would glue it back in a little while and finished putting stuff back together. When I went to do that , SHAZAM it looks good again. In only 30-40 minutes.

So I left it there and started tinkering in Mobius. After a few days with no changes I moved the Purple Ribbon to the 75 and moved the Purple Frilly away from the end to where the ribbon was.

The Purple Ribbon looked better and after a day started extending again. The purple frilly looks the same.

Then

7-8-20 I posted
This thing is always happy

and then it wasn't anymore.

It isn't just the gorgs. Several things in the 240 look poopy. They aren't thriving anymore. It's obvious in the pics. I beat the heck out of my grape coral with the flow.

MH with new bulbs has got to be gold. The water is the same. It has to be the flow. So I got the flow to be about the same.

Nothing changed.

So I am down to questioning my assumption that the MH has got to be gold.
250 watt MH isn't going to be too strong over a 24 inch deep tank. So it must be too dim.
Or I have completely failed to identify the problem at all.

So this is what I decided to do last night.
Take the GFO offline and stop the LCl and let the p04 rise to 0.1. Rely on the biopellets and NoPox again.
Put the new Hamilton 14K bulbs in and set them at 8 inches. Check the rotary switches again.
I increased the MH on time to 10 hours from 8. I used to run them 12.
Place 2 MP60s centered on each end high. Move 2 to the back 1/2 way down. Rebalance the flow again.
Increase the trace element dose. In 2 ICP tests many of the elements still show 0 levels.

I built a new ATO/AWC using a Hydros XS. It should be more reliable than what I was using and I am changing 6 gallons a day.


I have cyano starting from the tinkering I have been doing. Sigh.

and thanks for helping me.

 

[Uncle99]

As soon as I moved my phosphate from 0.03ppm to 0.08ppm, all my corals looked way better in terms of PE and colour.

It appears my trusty Hanna Phosphorus Checker has a margin of error in which the 0.03ppm is according to ICP, zero.

To ensure I had trace phosphate, I bumped it up with Neophos to 0.08-.1ppm and within a week, a big clear noticeable difference.

Looks like I had been running zero for months.

 

[WVNed]

So this is what I decided to do last night.
Take the GFO offline and stop the LCl and let the p04 rise to 0.1. Rely on the biopellets and NoPox again.
Put the new Hamilton 14K bulbs in and set them at 8 inches. Check the rotary switches again.
I increased the MH on time to 10 hours from 8. I used to run them 12.
Place 2 MP60s centered on each end high. Move 2 to the back 1/2 way down. Rebalance the flow again.
Increase the trace element dose. In 2 ICP tests many of the elements still show 0 levels.

Done
Now I wait.

 

[Goaway]

I read this maybe 5 times. Trying to figure it out. You said all corals. Lights are your newest change.

Light shock. I don't know what lights are in the other tank that made them perc up. How about a par meter from a friend?

 

[WVNed]

I read this maybe 5 times. Trying to figure it out. You said all corals. Lights are your newest change.

Light shock. I don't know what lights are in the other tank that made them perc up. How about a par meter from a friend?

The problems started before I made the changes. The changes were to try to fix it.
The 240 has 4 250w MH and 8 52w T-5
The 75 has a 48 inch Reefbreeders Photon V2.

 

[WVNed]

Here is the flow with the Vortechs moved.

 

[Goaway]

So this is what I decided to do last night.
Take the GFO offline and stop the LCl and let the p04 rise to 0.1. Rely on the biopellets and NoPox again.
Put the new Hamilton 14K bulbs in and set them at 8 inches. Check the rotary switches again.
I increased the MH on time to 10 hours from 8. I used to run them 12.
Place 2 MP60s centered on each end high. Move 2 to the back 1/2 way down. Rebalance the flow again.
Increase the trace element dose. In 2 ICP tests many of the elements still show 0 levels.

Done
Now I wait.

You gave yourself the best advice.. I'm hoping it works.

 

[WVNed]

Progress

I put the Purple Ribbon back in the 240 this afternoon

 

[dennis romano]

Looking great!

 

[Goaway]

Ned knows what he's doing. I think he needed to think out loud this time.

 

[WVNed]

Ned knows what he's doing. I think he needed to think out loud this time.

Ned is making it up as he goes along.

According to my camera exposure meter the 240 is 4 times as bright as the 75. So I raised the light from 8 to 12 inches and now it is 2 times as bright.

 

[Goaway]

How are they doing so far?

 

[WVNed]

How are they doing so far?

Some look better and some the same. I think they need to adjust to the new bulbs. I had very low par bulbs with the Ushios according to some comparison testing I read.
So I took an exposure reading with a camera on the 75 gallon tank and compared it to one on the 240
with the new 14K bulbs.
It allows you to compare two objects in terms of brightness.
Each step in the ISO or f stop or shutter speed is a doubling of the light. That's how cameras work.
So I raised the MH lights until they were only 1 stop higher than the 75 gallon.

I think I have gone all the way around where I want to be with both the lighting and the flow.
I am now turning them both down but just a little.

Still in the 75

In the 240

Some small purple ribbons I had started are the only casualties during this and I think It will take the big one a little longer to come back in perfect shape.
I have plugged the ozone generator into a smart plug and programmed it to run 1 hour every other day.
That should be enough to decolorize the water.
I tested nitrates and phosephates today. 0.1 and 10. I will test them every day for a while and see where they settle with the GFO offline.

At least the frogspawn thinks what I am doing is great.

 

[OldRed1]

Hey, Ned! I found your post while trying to research reasons why my purple frilly gorgonian is no longer opening. Nothing has changed in the tank except for lowering my phosphates from approximately .5 ppm to .2 ppm.

Flow is the same, placement is the same, lighting schedule is the same. My purple frilly looked like this for several weeks

But for the last week or so it stays closed up like this:

Any ideas?