Got a Plague Need Guidance

[Scurvy]

i did some shuffling. I have the tangs, angel and radiant at .3.

Have the Rose Band, KwaZulu, damsels and long nose in .23 their color came back and the seizure like behavior stopped.

Ill press on with the tang tank. Not sure what Im going to do with the others. I may just get a new clean tank going and hope for the best if they survive the night.

 

[ngoodermuth]

If they are tolerating the .23 I’d just leave them there a little longer. They might just need more time to adjust.

If it weren’t for the velvet... I would have suggested 4-5 days to ramp up cupramine for wrasses (for prophylactic treatments, I’ll take up to a week to bring it up the whole way...) This is where velvet complicates things

 

[tdlawdo]

I tried to QT once when i first started and killed the fish within 30 min. That was enough to intimidate me into going without ever since.

With any luck you’ll tell me its ich and Ill lose most of the anxiety I have at the moment.

Will track down Copper Power and CP in the morning. Cant remember what the LFS had off hand.

Copper power on amazon for overnight

 

[tdlawdo]

Been gone and late to the party. But why mess with copper and if so only use the chelated form Copper Power seems easy to get and safer. Get a seachem disk and the Hanna as previously explained. Then do the general cure (prazi + metronidazole) mixed with some focus (assuming they are eating)
Of course not for lions, eels, mandarins, pipes or puffers.

But one time dose with Chloroquine Phosphate and then add the general cure (prazi + metronidazole) mixed with some focus.
Not the wrasses, hippo or anthias.

 

[ngoodermuth]

How are the remaining fish today? Any updates?

 

[Scurvy]

Sorry, Thursday mornings are the worst for me with meetings.

Tang tank is at .35 and doing well though I havent seen the Radiant yet. Assuming he's okay in the sand but who knows?

The 2nd tank with the wrasses is at .20. The KwaZulu was acting much better in the lower copper level. The Rose Band is fading, Defintiely happier in the lower level of copper but still fading. I'm assuming he'll be gone by end of day.

I'll keep going on the tangs, probably going to move the KwaZulu and Rose Band if he's still alive when i get home into a clean setup and monitor them there, then continue bumping copper in that tank too. If the Velvet kills them so be it but Im not going to keep adding copper knowing Im killing them myself with each additional drop.

Not changing up the treatment plan at this point to another medication. I'll ride it out with the Cupramine, save what i can save then make a decision on what to do next, if anything at all. Pretty disgusted at the moment.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

Sorry, Thursday mornings are the worst for me with meetings.

Tang tank is at .35 and doing well though I havent seen the Radiant yet. Assuming he's okay in the sand but who knows?

The 2nd tank with the wrasses is at .20. The KwaZulu was acting much better in the lower copper level. The Rose Band is fading, Defintiely happier in the lower level of copper but still fading. I'm assuming he'll be gone by end of day.

I'll keep going on the tangs, probably going to move the KwaZulu and Rose Band if he's still alive when i get home into a clean setup and monitor them there, then continue bumping copper in that tank too. If the Velvet kills them so be it but Im not going to keep adding copper knowing Im killing them myself with each additional drop.

Not changing up the treatment plan at this point to another medication. I'll ride it out with the Cupramine, save what i can save then make a decision on what to do next, if anything at all. Pretty disgusted at the moment.

My suggestion, remove your fairys from ionic copper into a clean tank. Then overnight some chealated copper(Fritz Mardel Coppersafe). Fairys and flashers tolerate cheated copper MUCH better than ionic.

Check out the chart, 1 is good 5 is bad. Fairys and flashers are a 2 on chelated and a 3 on ionic. I ran my six line inhad thru chelated and went to 2.0 in 24 hours... all of my fish were absolutely unphased by the copper and the tangs were relieved to be in it away from the velvet. My coral beauty never made it into copper and perished immediately after a FW dip.

 

[BeejReef]

You've done a great job. It's natural to feel down, but look at those fish that are alive. They'd be dead by now if not for your considerable efforts AND they likely have a considerable tolerance to velvet now. They have a great chance at a long and happy life. In the time it took me to type this, thousands and thousands of fish have probably lost their lives. Some of them are in fish stix in my freezer Every fish dies, but probably comparatively few of them are truly cared for, and that's obviously your gift. You're really upset because you care, and that's exactly why you're the one to continue caring for them

 

[ngoodermuth]

My suggestion, remove your fairys from ionic copper into a clean tank. Then overnight some chealated copper(Fritz Mardel Coppersafe). Fairys and flashers tolerate cheated copper MUCH better than ionic.

Check out the chart, 1 is good 5 is bad. Fairys and flashers are a 2 on chelated and a 3 on ionic. I ran my six line inhad thru chelated and went to 2.0 in 24 hours... all of my fish were absolutely unphased by the copper and the tangs were relieved to be in it away from the velvet. My coral beauty never made it into copper and perished immediately after a FW dip.

Copper Power is a better choice than CopperSafe. I’ll have to dig up the thread, but there were significant inconsistencies in the concentrations of different batches of CopperSafe. People were having issues because of it...

 

[BeejReef]

My suggestion, remove your fairys from ionic copper into a clean tank. Then overnight some chealated copper(Fritz Mardel Coppersafe). Fairys and flashers tolerate cheated copper MUCH better than ionic.

Check out the chart, 1 is good 5 is bad. Fairys and flashers are a 2 on chelated and a 3 on ionic. I ran my six line inhad thru chelated and went to 2.0 in 24 hours... all of my fish were absolutely unphased by the copper and the tangs were relieved to be in it away from the velvet. My coral beauty never made it into copper and perished immediately after a FW dip.

What is TTM and CP in the chart you shared?

 

[ngoodermuth]

You've done a great job. It's natural to feel down, but look at those fish that are alive. They'd be dead by now if not for your considerable efforts AND they likely have a considerable tolerance to velvet now. They have a great chance at a long and happy life. In the time it took me to type this, thousands and thousands of fish have probably lost their lives. Some of them are in fish stix in my freezer Every fish dies, but probably comparatively few of them are truly cared for, and that's obviously your gift. You're really upset because you care, and that's exactly why you're the one to continue caring for them

+1... it would be very unusual to come out of a velvet outbreak with all fish in tact. Ich yes, velvet definitely not. It’s not an easy parasite to beat... in the best conditions. And, you had a delayed start trying to get the QTs up and running.

You’re doing the best you can with the situation at hand, and putting in some serious effort. It sucks and I know how it feels to loose a full tank population to velvet... I’ve taken breaks from the hobby afterwards, I was so disheartened.

It’s also what got me seriously interested in establishing a QT protocol... and even after deciding to go all-in, there is a definite learning curve. I’ve had diseases sneak through incomplete treatments, cross-contamination, etc. It takes practice, just like any other skill, to get comfortable and be able to gauge when to push ahead and when to back off.

 

[ngoodermuth]

What is TTM and CP in the chart you shared?

Tank Transfer Method

Chloroquine Phosphate

 

[SashimiTurtle]

What is TTM and CP in the chart you shared?

I can't claim credit for the chart. That would be the result of this thread by @melypr1985. It was shared already on page 1 of this thread and is a great reference for treating fish and which medications or method is safe.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/#post-3449648

TTM is tank transfer method. I do not know the exact times, but the basic idea is to transfer the fish into a new sterile QT tank before the parasites can hatch and attach to the fish. This eventually will allow all the adults to die, and not be able to continue their life cycle.

CP is chloroquine phosphate. It's used for certain scaleless fish and similar fish such as, but not limited to eels, puffers and mandarins. Last I checked you had to have a Rx from a veterinarian to acquire it.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Important to note, tank transfer only works for Ich.... not velvet, brook, or uronema.

 

[tdlawdo]

You've done a great job. It's natural to feel down, but look at those fish that are alive. They'd be dead by now if not for your considerable efforts AND they likely have a considerable tolerance to velvet now. They have a great chance at a long and happy life. In the time it took me to type this, thousands and thousands of fish have probably lost their lives. Some of them are in fish stix in my freezer Every fish dies, but probably comparatively few of them are truly cared for, and that's obviously your gift. You're really upset because you care, and that's exactly why you're the one to continue caring for them

Well said!

 

[tdlawdo]

Copper Power is a better choice than CopperSafe. I’ll have to dig up the thread, but there were significant inconsistencies in the concentrations of different batches of CopperSafe. People were having issues because of it...

Yes most have gone to copper power due to some QT issues at the other

 

[tdlawdo]

What is TTM and CP in the chart you shared?

Tank transfer method and chloroquine phosphate...a human anti malarial drug

 

[siggy]

Tough break Scurvy, We all now how much you cared for your wrasses and other fish. I lost most of mine to velvet, B/G Chromes and a wrasse made it the rest didn't. hoping thats the last of it.

 

[Scurvy]

Busy day but made some progress this afternoon. The Rose Band was surprisingly still alive. Mixed up a bucket of fresh water and moved the two fairy’s into it. Bucket was best I could do quickly. Everything else is in use already or desperately needs a cleaning.

Our spare bedroom looks much more meth lab than bedroom. Should probably ditch the bed and just make it a permanent addition.

Tangs, Angel and Radiant all doing well. Fed and all ate. Added some more cupramine and will test shortly.

Damsels and Hawk seem unfazed and eating. Damsels are like cockroaches anyway. Bumped copper there and still need to test.

Ordered copper power. Hopefully theres still a need when it arrives Sat morning. Overnight was an option but I want them to chill in fresh water for a day or two anyway before adding stress again. The KwaZulu is still pretty strong and hopefully hangs on, The rose band is a coin flip at best.

Thanks for the encouragement and help!

 

[SashimiTurtle]

Chin up @Scurvy. We won't let you throw the towel in, we got your back.