Got new fish in to QT.. Salinity extremely high

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Ugh - the tang is breathing at 200 gill beats per minute, that is very high.

You can be at full copper dose tomorrow, right?

If this is from an ammonia burn in the shipping bag, there isn't much you can do but wait it out. If it is from protozoans, the copper will help with that.

Jay

 

[PaulieReef]

If you post a video of the larger one, I can get some sense of how fast it is breathing and then, how serious the issue might be.

Jay

I also have a non medicated tank I could transfer him to, 1.027 salinity with zero copper.

 

[PaulieReef]

Ugh - the tang is breathing at 200 gill beats per minute, that is very high.

You can be at full copper dose tomorrow, right?

If this is from an ammonia burn in the shipping bag, there isn't much you can do but wait it out. If it is from protozoans, the copper will help with that.

Jay

Should I turn the lights off for less stress? And try to feed again tomorrow? Watch for breathing to normalize?

 

[PaulieReef]

@Jay Hemdal

So I currently have the gem in a 1.020 salinity, 2ppm copper power tank. Rapid breathing and interested in food but didn't eat any.

The water that I tested was 1.029 salinity, I did not notice if there was rapid breathing in bag, I have another tank, 0ppm copper and 1.027 salinity.

Should I transfer the gem there? I was reading that gems have a rough time with salinity changes, just curious if the copper is too much with the salinity change.

Or is it better to just leave it be, her breath is pretty fast. I have an air stone running 24/7 plus hob and a power head for oxygen exchange.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

@Jay Hemdal

So I currently have the gem in a 1.020 salinity, 2ppm copper power tank. Rapid breathing and interested in food but didn't eat any.

The water that I tested was 1.029 salinity, I did not notice if there was rapid breathing in bag, I have another tank, 0ppm copper and 1.027 salinity.

Should I transfer the gem there? I was reading that gems have a rough time with salinity changes, just curious if the copper is too much with the salinity change.

Or is it better to just leave it be, her breath is pretty fast. I have an air stone running 24/7 plus hob and a power head for oxygen exchange.

No, moving the tang up 7 specific gravity units is going to cause too much stress. You need to get the difference between the tanks down to about 3 units or less and then you can more safely acclimate the tang over if you want to.
Jay

 

[PaulieReef]

No, moving the tang up 7 specific gravity units is going to cause too much stress. You need to get the difference between the tanks down to about 3 units or less and then you can more safely acclimate the tang over if you want to.
Jay

So I used 3 salinity meters for the water the vendor gave me and all read 1.029.

the tank the gem is in is currently 1.022, originally 1.020 (raised it 2 ppt today). Would it be beneficial to slowly raise the salinity to around 1.027 over the next few days (assuming the fish survives) to try to get it in the salinity it was originally in?

or since it’s been in this salinity for over 24 hours it’s only going to cause more stress?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

So I used 3 salinity meters for the water the vendor gave me and all read 1.029.

the tank the gem is in is currently 1.022, originally 1.020 (raised it 2 ppt today). Would it be beneficial to slowly raise the salinity to around 1.027 over the next few days (assuming the fish survives) to try to get it in the salinity it was originally in?

or since it’s been in this salinity for over 24 hours it’s only going to cause more stress?

I think you should keep it right where it is at 1.022. Sorry, I lost track of why you wanted to take it back up to 1.029, no need to do that!
Jay

 

[PaulieReef]

I think you should keep it right where it is at 1.022. Sorry, I lost track of why you wanted to take it back up to 1.029, no need to do that!
Jay

Unfortunately the gem didn’t make it through the night.

Is putting fish directly into 2.5ppm of copper power safe?

only reason I ask is because I need to find another tang to add to QT since I need to add 3 tangs at once to reducing fighting

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Will the third tang be shipped to you or purchased locally? If locally, there won't be much transport stress and you can put it right into full copper power. For shipped fish that have been in bags for 24+ hours, it is best to let them rest for 48 hours before putting them in copper.

While I understand the idea behind adding multiple fish at once to try and defuse aggression, it doesn't always work - be careful!

As far as the gem tang in the picture, it looks pretty thin and has some bite marks on the trailing edges of the fins. I wonder if it was in poor shape when you got it?

Jay

 

[PaulieReef]

Will the third tang be shipped to you or purchased locally? If locally, there won't be much transport stress and you can put it right into full copper power. For shipped fish that have been in bags for 24+ hours, it is best to let them rest for 48 hours before putting them in copper.

While I understand the idea behind adding multiple fish at once to try and defuse aggression, it doesn't always work - be careful!

As far as the gem tang in the picture, it looks pretty thin and has some bite marks on the trailing edges of the fins. I wonder if it was in poor shape when you got it?

Jay

So ideal situation, in a separate tank out the tank in a non copper treated tank for 48 hours (since vendor is not local) match salinity of bag in the untreated tank.

Make sure the QT tank matches the salinity of shipped or close to 2-3 PPT? And swap over to 2.5 PPM Full therapeutic copper

And yeah was pretty thing when I got it. Also couldn’t get it to eat

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

So ideal situation, in a separate tank out the tank in a non copper treated tank for 48 hours (since vendor is not local) match salinity of bag in the untreated tank.

Make sure the QT tank matches the salinity of shipped or close to 2-3 PPT? And swap over to 2.5 PPM Full therapeutic copper

Not quite - match the salinity of the tank with the bag and then acclimate the fish over. Then, over two days, slowly adjust the salinity of the separate tank (and temperature) to that of the tank with copper, and move it over. I presume that you want to do this because the final tank has fish already in copper, but remember, when you add a new fish, the quarantine counter is set back.

Jay

 

[PaulieReef]

Not quite - match the salinity of the tank with the bag and then acclimate the fish over. Then, over two days, slowly adjust the salinity of the separate tank (and temperature) to that of the tank with copper, and move it over. I presume that you want to do this because the final tank has fish already in copper, but remember, when you add a new fish, the quarantine counter is set back.

Jay

Correct, and that’s ok. I want to add them the same time anyway. Main tank is up to about 7 tangs and still get some scuffles so although not guaranteed at least help the distribution of fighting.

I also purchased two acclimation boxes

 

[vetteguy53081]

So I used 3 salinity meters for the water the vendor gave me and all read 1.029.

the tank the gem is in is currently 1.022, originally 1.020 (raised it 2 ppt today). Would it be beneficial to slowly raise the salinity to around 1.027 over the next few days (assuming the fish survives) to try to get it in the salinity it was originally in?

or since it’s been in this salinity for over 24 hours it’s only going to cause more stress?

No benefits on raising it but keep stable
You are doing the worse thing in this hobby which is referred to as " Chasing". Its a term where one sends various values up and down in the process stressing both fish and corals and as example, when you raise salinity, it impacts alk and ph. When you raise alk, it impacts calcium as examples. Below are typical Ranges which coincide with ocean water and allow the tank to stabilize rather than run after numbers.

salinity - 1.024-1.025
temp 77-79
PH 8.1 - 8.3
ammonia <.025
Nitrate <15
alk 8-11dkh
Calcium 400-450
Mag 1300 -1350
Phos .04-.08

 

[PaulieReef]

No benefits on raising it but keep stable
You are doing the worse thing in this hobby which is referred to as " Chasing". Its a term where one sends various values up and down in the process stressing both fish and corals and as example, when you raise salinity, it impacts alk and ph. When you raise alk, it impacts calcium as examples. Below are typical Ranges which coincide with ocean water and allow the tank to stabilize rather than run after numbers.

salinity - 1.024-1.025
temp 77-79
PH 8.1 - 8.3
ammonia <.025
Nitrate <15
alk 8-11dkh
Calcium 400-450
Mag 1300 -1350
Phos .04-.08

A tad confused about this response. The original question that you quoted was if it was beneficial to put the QT tank back up to the salinity of the bagged water or since it’s been over 24 hours, Jay responded to keep as is. So I have.

I know chasing numbers is bad but couldn’t find any research on if it was more or worse beneficial to bring the fish back to the salinity it was “use to” or just let it acclimate to what it was currently in.

 

[vetteguy53081]

A tad confused about this response. The original question that you quoted was if it was beneficial to put the QT tank back up to the salinity of the bagged water or since it’s been over 24 hours, Jay responded to keep as is. So I have.

I know chasing numbers is bad but couldn’t find any research on if it was more or worse beneficial to bring the fish back to the salinity it was “use to” or just let it acclimate to what it was currently in.

To remove confusion, It/was your goal to bring fish to salinity of bag. You want to acclimate to salinity of tank. Because bag was 1.027 does not signify correct salinity. I add water every 3 days to evaporation. When it climbs, I bring it back down. Keeping it as it is agreeable but often my concern with higher salinity is that often it can cause increased stress in newly acquired fish as its important to mimic the natural environment of the ocean in all aspects for wild-caught fish and not with the LFS environment .
Many LFS and wholesalers have humid environments and endure high evaporation and are not aware that their tank salinity have become elevated and those that sell RO water have elevated Phos or nitrate content and again unaware.

 

[PaulieReef]

To remove confusion, It/was your goal to bring fish to salinity of bag. You want to acclimate to salinity of tank. Because bag was 1.027 does not signify correct salinity. I add water every 3 days to evaporation. When it climbs, I bring it back down. Keeping it as it is agreeable but often my concern with higher salinity is that often it can cause increased stress in newly acquired fish as its important to mimic the natural environment of the ocean in all aspects for wild-caught fish and not with the LFS environment .
Many LFS and wholesalers have humid environments and endure high evaporation and are not aware that their tank salinity have become elevated and those that sell RO water have elevated Phos or nitrate content and again unaware.

Think there are multiple thoughts here, as I am still a bit confused.

Yes, fish should be kept in their natural occurring parameters in nature. I agree with you on that.

However, in this instance, the fish went from 1.029 salinity to an instant drop in 1.020. The vendor stated that their water was 1.021, so I wanted to match that in the QT tank. Should I have tested the water before dumping the fish. Yes, but I respected what the vendor said, and that was my mistake.

So upon that mistake I asked the question was it better to just keep the fish at the lower salinity or bring it back to the salinity the fish was at in the bag/store.

I agree with you 100% that natural see levels are best, but that wasn’t the question here. The question was what would be less stressful. To acclimate the fish to the stores salinity levels or to let it acclimate into the lower salinity.

At this point the the answer is kind of moot because the fish died last night. But thank you for your responses.