Grafting: Make your own rainbow chalice? Acro? Pics are Proof.

[franklypre]

As we all know the collection process for wild corals is geared towards larger wholesalers getting nicer coral, however the price alone makes me think there is something curious about these chalice. I've paid well over a hundred bucks for a colony, but several hundred for a frag leads me to believe these have a lot of work put into them. If not they are one in a million pieces that naturally grafted 5-10 different color morphs, I think we would already have seen these years ago if this were the case.

 

[Headiesheradon]

Rainbow chailices are not grafted. Think of it like this, in the wild corals reproduce sexually and asexually. So lets just say a blue echino is growing next to a red echino of the exact same species and they decide that they like each others "mojo" and they release there "essence of passion" into the water. Now these two corals have just joined there dna. and viola!!! Now you have a blue AND red echino babys all over the place. All the color mixing is done via dna coding just like the rest of nature. atleast in terms of mutilpe colors in one peice ( rainbow acans can best describe this). hence why we have new colors all the time and same color forms popping up that were thought to be rare. And that also brings me to another topic.. Certain colors or patterns are only found in certain areas. There are many diving locations that coral is collected from. Australia being the most recent since 2007. Alot of the best color corals come from australia because of water quilty IMO. And you have a diver that is harvesting only the best of the best. Anybody who is serious about the hobby isnt really buying just plain jane corals anymore which drives the demand for more crazy morphs and colors. hence why we have been seeing more and more "rare" coral. Just the begining of my thoughts on the topic.

 

[franklypre]

Thanks for the reply but I think sexual reproduction would bring other traits from both "parents" rather than the splotched and striated chalice we see today, some of which have alteast 4 different variants. Nature can most definately pull one or two variants but as you suggested different variants are in different locations. I definately would think there would have been a few specimen of these chalices in the trade before now, I'm beginning to believe some of these are maricultured. Personally I would like to see most if not all corals labled as to where they are collected/cultured. It's something FW breeders do well and produce amazing strains of beautiful fish. If these are natural occuring chalice I would love to see pics of them on the reefs, that would be "proof" to me.

 

[dankreef]

Was just having this discussion with my friend the other day about where these chalices were found. He was under the impression that all the chalices had to be gathered by licensed divers and have location of where they were found. Is this not true?

 

[franklypre]

If it is true the hobbyist should have the right to know as well.

 

[Headiesheradon]

Alot of it is location based. And the hobbiest can know. MOST lfs have the knowledge of atleast knowing if it is collected in indonesia or australia. Some will even have the luxury of knowing what eact location they come from. There is a basis of knowing if the coral is wild, maricultured, or aquacultured. And as far as having all these crazy morphs in the past, it comes down to supply and demand. Their used to not be a big enough demand for this crazy coral becuase the masses couldnt keep it alive. Everybody wanted it but no body wanted a "rental" coral.


And back to sexual reproduction, think about this, if coral reproduce sexually on a lunar cycle then that would mean that most of all the same species would be preprogrammed to release its matter into the jetstream at the same time so that it would have the best chance of joining with others of the same species all over the reef. So honestly with that being said your imagination can only answer the possibilties as to what could happen with color on corals. Grafting coral to get all these color swirls and pinstriping is a bit far fetched IMHO. Grating montis is hard enough let alone a LPS.
And go out there go diving out on the reef i bet you will be suprised at what nature has to offer you.

 

[franklypre]

Well no beach for a long way, no reef within 1000 miles. One would think the original chalice craze a few years ago would have inticed divers to grab every chalice they could, never heard of anyone having issues keeping them in the last 20 years. When I find another chalice that resembles mine I'll start attempting my original plan. I may just pickup a wild colony somewhere so I'll have plenty to try. Don't know what will happen until I try though, unless someone has already attempted this.

 

[Headiesheradon]

The Coral craze in general has only been going on for about 7 to 10 years. only about 15 years ago it was general knowledge that you could even keep them alive in captivity. And im sure people will try to graft chalice together and im not saying that its not possible. BUt if it were easy and generally practiced then there would be alot more info available because things def. dont stay a secret in this hobby for long. Just look at some literture from 15 years ago about coral keeping and about all of the practices from back then and you will see that they have been thrown into the vault of dinosaurism. Some you might even find to be absoulutly off the wall in comparison to today. pinwheel impellars didnt even come about for a protein skimmer till the early 2000's. And fragging corals just the same. i remember when fragging tools consisted of a hammer and chizel or flat head screw driver for the more precise cuts. lol i am very intersted in grafting corals because NOBODY does it. i personaly want to graft leptoseris species. they to seem to be (imo) the best to work with besides monti caps.

 

[reefkoi]

There is an article on Reefbuilders wondering where all the rainbow chalices come from. Really wish there were an answer availbale to us. Seems one of the sponsors on this site has quite a few extreme rainbows, I would love to here how/where these were found.

They are all maricultured in Indonesia, that means we will see more and more of them every week! They shouldnt run out for quite a while

 

[Headiesheradon]

Thank you reef koi! That really helps out alot. As the hobby grows so does the demand for those crazy colors. So the ony way to do this sustanably is by mariculture in the islands and by people like reef koi doing a wonderful job of aquaculture. But that only explains indo.. What about those crazy Aussies?? Are they not mariculturing as well?

 

[reefkoi]

Aussie is all wild collected from what Ive seen, I think it probably has to do with the areas were only open to collecting recently so its not been as over harvested as indonesia.
Its funny, these prices are a direct result of vendors that overcharge. The collectors are watching forums and websites always and they see what is charged and they keep upping their prices because they see a vendor sell a chalice for $1K per eye they say wow we need to charge more and we all keep buying em so on it goes.

I can tell you california has made the prices go up for all of us, it really is that simple and this hobby is small so its easily monitored at the collection point.

C

 

[Headiesheradon]

Aussie is bascially the wild west as far as coral collecting is concerned. Very regulated but who knows whats going to be pulled from those waters next in terms of color forms and patterns. In my experince in the buisness there are def places that I prefer to get coral from (as far as collection location). Location has to with just about every aspect of coral importing IMO. Some places will produce certain things better than others. You can only get certain things from certain areas as well. Maricultured indo coral isnt even labeled like most would think. "Monti. Sp. indo-maricultured" thats about all the info you get somtimes. And its the same for other maricultured indo coral as well you just get the scientific name not a common name.

 

[Reefing8EZ]

Aussie is all wild collected from what Ive seen, I think it probably has to do with the areas were only open to collecting recently so its not been as over harvested as indonesia.
Its funny, these prices are a direct result of vendors that overcharge. The collectors are watching forums and websites always and they see what is charged and they keep upping their prices because they see a vendor sell a chalice for $1K per eye they say wow we need to charge more and we all keep buying em so on it goes.

I can tell you california has made the prices go up for all of us, it really is that simple and this hobby is small so its easily monitored at the collection point.

C

That's makes a lot of sense bro! We need more vendors like you, that want to keep this hobby fun and affordable. And honest!

 

[Scoly]

I don't think I would pin that label on just California! Some of the most expensive ones you find arent coming from vendors from Cali only! I think I would put a lot of the blame on eBay? Cali might have some, but the ones I personally see that are crazy priced, are from other states.

 

[Headiesheradon]

Cali as in wholesalers not private dealers. Wholesalers are doing things like adding "boutique" corals to there whole sale list. which cost more and are just the same as vendors used to get just jacked up prices. All there ultra peices have gone up in the past 2-3 years.

 

[Gonzo]

I like when you see a coral on the list for more than I could sell it for lol


Shhhhh. There watching now :gossip:


The wholesalers are putting the lfs out of business with there high pricing

 

[Headiesheradon]

lol. very true gonz. and internet dry goods sellers. they are really putting the small guys out of buisness.

 

[franklypre]

Good info Reefkoi, maricultured definately allows for the possibility of grafting. rather than miles seperating corals it is just a few feed or inches. Nobody raises the prices on coral but the folks who pay for them IMO, I'm not one of these so I honestly don't care. I am also aware of the recent advances in the hobby, I've literally had my hands in reefs since I was 7 or 8, it runs in the family. My first frag was of a bubble that receeded and produced several babies that I cut and mounted to the glass with superglue(not gel, it was extremely messy). Needle wheel skimmers and all that are nice but the old downdrafts still work, you can still keep coral under PCs as well. I have had many people argue to no end on my various methods in the past, my first reef was a 30 tall with a 150w halide and I was told I would boil the water. Back to the subject at hand I am now curious to know how these rainbow chalices have been cared for while they were being maricultured, that seems to be where our answer would come from. Aussie chalice seems to still remain a mystery along with alot of the coral that comes from that region, that's what makes it exciting.

 

[Thizz]

This is a very interesting topic,I enjoyed reading through the posts!

 

[rajkovich207]

Here's my two cents. Its online vendors that Jack up the prices, I darn near pooped my pants when I saw a well known vender selling a chalice eye for 3k.. c'mon now... IMHO and ime whole salers have been keeping things cheap atleast around here. When I first started the hobby almost 2 years ago $70-90 for a mariculture acro was all to common, and in the last 6 months my area has had several new wholesalers go retail and are selling maris for $25 all day long. And on the rainbow topic, don't get me wrong I love the pretty colors but any thing with more than 2 colors is deemed a rainbow now a'days it makes me sick. And these super ultra rare rainbow chalices are very nice but I've never ever seen a colony shot of one,