Green Film Algae or not? (pics)

[Diesel]

Yep, that any any other natural food sources you have already in your system.
I myself didn't feed my fish for a month as results they become skinny after three weeks but not one fish died.
Even my mandarins survived and they weren't skinny at the end.
My Angels, Tangs were looking super skinny.
With slowly ramping up the food source they all bounced back to even better looking fish in color as before.
I only feed the best, LRS, mysis, live brine and live black-worms.

 

[Makers Marc]

Yep, that any any other natural food sources you have already in your system.
I myself didn't feed my fish for a month as results they become skinny after three weeks but not one fish died.
Even my mandarins survived and they weren't skinny at the end.
My Angels, Tangs were looking super skinny.
With slowly ramping up the food source they all bounced back to even better looking fish in color as before.
I only feed the best, LRS, mysis, live brine and live black-worms.

A whole month and no feeding? Wow. Seems kind of extreme. Unsure my anthias would survive that.

I'll try reducing my feeding and get the GFO offline.

What's your thought on my concern : take gfo offline, squirt in oyster feast. 2 wks later, I can imagine bad algae growth but my Hanna ULR will reflect 0. Then ill be told that it shows 0 b/c my algae uptick all the nutirients? So how do I know when po4 levels have been reached?

 

[Diesel]

It ain't happening overnight.
In some cases it will take a few weeks to get the balance back.
Mark Callahan (Mr Saltwater) did years ago a research on how to battle algae in a system and yet keep feeding the fish.
Maybe this is still on his website.

 

[Makers Marc]

It ain't happening overnight.
In some cases it will take a few weeks to get the balance back.
Mark Callahan (Mr Saltwater) did years ago a research on how to battle algae in a system and yet keep feeding the fish.
Maybe this is still on his website.

Thx for all your help. I'll keep every updated

 

[PSXerholic]

Ben's approach is absolute correct.
The thing with cyano and other undesired bacteria or fungi is, that they fuel from additional organics that enter the tank, not just Po4 or No3.
There are plenty of other things we bring in our tanks that certain pest algae love which can't be easily removed, but consumed! Hence if certain phenols, silicates (list is endless).... or other undesired elements accumulate they will be consumed for a while by the algae/bacteria and at a certain point they will starve and being outcompeted normally if we are lucky.

However for a good "outcompeting" exercise, you need to have good ingredients for your good bacteria such as nutrients in the red field ratio and some time for the good bacteria to grow and they will take over.
A lot of low quality foods bring in stuff that fuels these algae/bacteria simply from using chemicals for preservation and containers and packing materials, or simply YANKEE CANDLES, no joke!

Since these undesired elements are not to see or measurable it's pretty much a blind flight to battle those.
A monthly treatment of "A BIT" of activated carbon for 24/48 hours will help to get some of them out of the tank. Do not use much, that will shock the tank and doesn't help then.
Also running finer bubbles in your skimmer will get some chemicals removed that bigger micro bubbles can't remove during skimming. The finer bubbles seem to oxidize certain chemicals better, that's the theory.

So what Ben did knowingly or not, he actually breaks off the addition of supplementing undesired chemicals/elements, while the tank consumes the excessive stuff ideally and brings it back to normal levels.

The myth that high Po4 causes algae outbreak is only true when Po4 is out of whack of the Red field ratio. My tank typically runs No3 at 4-8 while Po4 is around 0.1-0.15 and you won't see even a hair of any algae anywhere. And I have not many fish in my 300G tank.

When it comes to Po4 increase, ideally Phytoplankton is a good route but it will take a while until levels rise because the tank will consume a lot in the beginning before you see it rising. A Po4 addition if needed can be done also in conjunction with Phyto feast while using Chlorella or Spirulina Superfood! Or if you want to be safe, then use Tropic Marin Pro Coral Phyton.

 

[Makers Marc]

Ben's approach is absolute correct.
The thing with cyano and other undesired bacteria or fungi is, that they fuel from additional organics that enter the tank, not just Po4 or No3.
There are plenty of other things we bring in our tanks that certain pest algae love which can't be easily removed, but consumed! Hence if certain phenols, silicates (list is endless).... or other undesired elements accumulate they will be consumed for a while by the algae/bacteria and at a certain point they will starve and being outcompeted normally if we are lucky.

However for a good "outcompeting" exercise, you need to have good ingredients for your good bacteria such as nutrients in the red field ratio and some time for the good bacteria to grow and they will take over.
A lot of low quality foods bring in stuff that fuels these algae/bacteria simply from using chemicals for preservation and containers and packing materials, or simply YANKEE CANDLES, no joke!

Since these undesired elements are not to see or measurable it's pretty much a blind flight to battle those.
A monthly treatment of "A BIT" of activated carbon for 24/48 hours will help to get some of them out of the tank. Do not use much, that will shock the tank and doesn't help then.
Also running finer bubbles in your skimmer will get some chemicals removed that bigger micro bubbles can't remove during skimming. The finer bubbles seem to oxidize certain chemicals better, that's the theory.

So what Ben did knowingly or not, he actually breaks off the addition of supplementing undesired chemicals/elements, while the tank consumes the excessive stuff ideally and brings it back to normal levels.

The myth that high Po4 causes algae outbreak is only true when Po4 is out of whack of the Red field ratio. My tank typically runs No3 at 4-8 while Po4 is around 0.1-0.15 and you won't see even a hair of any algae anywhere. And I have not many fish in my 300G tank.

When it comes to Po4 increase, ideally Phytoplankton is a good route but it will take a while until levels rise because the tank will consume a lot in the beginning before you see it rising. A Po4 addition if needed can be done also in conjunction with Phyto feast while using Chlorella or Spirulina Superfood! Or if you want to be safe, then use Tropic Marin Pro Coral Phyton.

Very well said as well. Thx.

Can I ask though, isn't there a risk that the phosphate continues to be undetectable because the The Rock will get saturated with it?

 

[Makers Marc]

When it comes to Po4 increase, ideally Phytoplankton is a good route but it will take a while until levels rise because the tank will consume a lot in the beginning before you see it rising. A Po4 addition if needed can be done also in conjunction with Phyto feast while using Chlorella or Spirulina Superfood! Or if you want to be safe, then use Tropic Marin Pro Coral Phyton.[/QUOTE]

Oops, also forgot to ask? So would you suggest that I hold off on adding any additional sand or Rock Rebel? Because I have been siphoning out so much Shannon the past months I was going to add more caribsea reef grade sometime soon. But we know that that also add some more silicates to the tank

 

[PSXerholic]

Great thought process!
Here is the thing with Phosphates.

It tends to sort of balance out between Po4 in the water vs. Po4 in the surface of the rock.
Simply speaking, if Po4 in the water is higher than in the rock, the rock will build in Po4 into the surface due to calcification/precipitation and coralline and other microbiological processes. That's what we know as "absorbing" of Po4.
This is how Po4 accumulates in the rocks.

As soon you have tanks matured, over time there will be quite some Po4 in the rocks and as long the Po4 in the water is decent reduced by GFO or bacterial consumption, and you maintain a certain Po4 level, the rocks stop to accumulate Po4 to remain in balance.

So if you start now to reduce the Po4 in the water to lower Po4 levels, the Po4 in the rock will start to leech out back in the water to look for balance again.

So the overall process is not an issue at all, as long you don't keep adding more Po4 than the biology can consume. Typically the Po4 remains elevated in the water until the rocks can build the Po4 in, then Po4 in the water reduces and Po4 in the rocks will raise.

Again, in a nutshell, the balance will happen. If you manage decent Po4 in the water, then Po4 can not build up to extreme levels in the rocks.
If Po4 rises slowly, it rises almost equal in Water and Rock.

That's when you see if you use older pre used rock in a new tank. All rock is clean and nice but the old piece is full of algae or cyano due to the fact of the higher Po4 levels on the surface of the rock. Depending on how long the rock was saturated and how high the Po4 level was in the old tank, it will "feed" the tank slowly with Po4 until the Po4 equilibrium is achieved.

Hope that helps a bit.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Just to drop this here as many think that Cyano is a product from over feeding or to high in one nutrient.
Many cases it's the opposite results of poor water quality with low nutrients.

Diesel was suggesting that I reduce my feeding to once every 3 days.

This was really confusing to me but I think I know what you are saying. Often times over feeding and low nutrients can result in two outcomes. High po4 absorbed in the rocks and sand grain with ratios that might look like 1:20 (N: P). Your water column will show low nutrients with algae present however, dissolved organics do increase.

I myself have struggled with cyano for a long time. I couldn't tell you what ratio my tank is running at as I stopped testing nutrients. But after doing a series of multiple water changes in a week, I saw the cyano disappear. So, I started feeding the same amount I always was and stretched water changes out to a week longer than I would normally do them. After 4 weeks, cyano reappeared. So the suggestion that over feeding could be causing it, isn't so far off in my opinion.

 

[PSXerholic]

When it comes to Po4 increase, ideally Phytoplankton is a good route but it will take a while until levels rise because the tank will consume a lot in the beginning before you see it rising. A Po4 addition if needed can be done also in conjunction with Phyto feast while using Chlorella or Spirulina Superfood! Or if you want to be safe, then use Tropic Marin Pro Coral Phyton.

Oops, also forgot to ask? So would you suggest that I hold off on adding any additional sand or Rock Rebel? Because I have been siphoning out so much Shannon the past months I was going to add more caribsea reef grade sometime soon. But we know that that also add some more silicates to the tank[/QUOTE]
Bringing in new substrate is giving a new home for bacteria to live on. So a mini cycle will happen and bacteria need to grow in the new sand/substrate.
Nothing wrong with adding more substrate, but I would wait until your issue is in better shape. Otherwise you will be distracted. Whenever I added a few inch of sand, I did see diatoms and algae on the new sand for a few weeks before it did disappear.

Go with the good stuff from Tropic Eden, got that from Ben and this stuff is extremely costly but awesome !!!!

 

[PSXerholic]

This was really confusing to me but I think I know what you are saying. Often times over feeding and low nutrients can result in two outcomes. High po4 absorbed in the rocks and sand grain with ratios that might look like 1:20 (N: P). Your water column will show low nutrients with algae present however, dissolved organics do increase.

I myself have struggled with cyano for a long time. I couldn't tell you what ratio my tank is running at as I stopped testing nutrients. But after doing a series of multiple water changes in a week, I saw the cyano disappear. So, I started feeding the same amount I always was and stretched water changes out to a week longer than I would normally do them. After 4 weeks, cyano reappeared. So the suggestion that over feeding could be causing it, isn't so far off in my opinion.

Lol, I know the subject Po4 is complex.
Simply the Po4 in the water vs. rocks balances out!
It walks in both directions with the target of a balance between water and rock.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Lol, I know the subject Po4 is complex.
Simply the Po4 in the water vs. rocks balances out!
It walks in both directions with the target of a balance between water and rock.

I myself don't think the discussion of po4 is complex lol. But I don't think there is a balance. I believe there is a equilibrium regulated by many factors that wouldn't include a balance or scale or anything that adds or subtracts by balancing numbers.

I think you understand that also. It needs to be conveyed differently. Essentially what you are describing is reducing the po4 in the water column to release the po4 from the rocks? Sounds good to me. I Also think, and along the same lines, some type of filter feeders need to be added to the tank. I added a piece of ive rock with forams, fan worms, and sponges once and my hermit crabs decimated that rock of any life. After removing the hermits, I noticed my tank come back to life and not just with coral growth and fish but with micro fauna.

 

[Diesel]

There are defiantly many factors invold but there is also a balance that needs to be hold.
Without a balance or method (for each there own) it will never thrive 100%.

 

[PSXerholic]

I myself don't think the discussion of po4 is complex lol. But I don't think there is a balance. I believe there is a equilibrium regulated by many factors that wouldn't include a balance or scale or anything that adds or subtracts by balancing numbers.

Lost in translation, lol. Equilibrium is the right and better wording

 

[reeferfoxx]

There are defiantly many factors invold but there is also a balance that needs to be hold.
Without a balance or method (for each there own) it will never thrive 100%.

I think you can have a balance of organisms but not a balance of nutrients. You can regulate the amount of organisms with nutrients. Thus finding your equilibrium.

If you go this route of adding N or P and them having to reduce N and P with various export medias while testing everyday for a few weeks hoping to target some ratio to only get burnt out and losing that ratio, does no favors for anyone in this hobby.

 

[Makers Marc]

I think you can have a balance of organisms but not a balance of nutrients. You can regulate the amount of organisms with nutrients. Thus finding your equilibrium.

If you go this route of adding N or P and them having to reduce N and P with various export medias while testing everyday for a few weeks hoping to target some ratio to only get burnt out and losing that ratio, does no favors for anyone in this hobby.

I definitely see what you are saying as well.

Especially the burned out part of the hobby. I've followed a few successful local reefers who emphasized to import and export alot of nutrients.

So I've been mimicking that by feeding 2x-3x a day and dosing no3, then having an oversized skimmer and running gfo/gac 24/7.

Plan will be to cutdown to feeding once a day vs three; then some phytofeast while shutting down my GFO for now. (Still confused why to shut this down if we are trying to pull po4 out from the rocks).

Thus far my acros have good color.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I definitely see what you are saying as well.

Especially the burned out part of the hobby. I've followed a few successful local reefers who emphasized to import and export alot of nutrients.

So I've been mimicking that by feeding 2x-3x a day and dosing no3, then having an oversized skimmer and running gfo/gac 24/7.

Plan will be to cutdown to feeding once a day vs three; then some phytofeast while shutting down my GFO for now. (Still confused why to shut this down if we are trying to pull po4 out from the rocks).

Thus far my acros have good color.

It goes back to having organisms. Increased nutrients increases organisms. Decreased nutrients, decreased organisms. If you are reducing po4, you are reducing the amount of organisms that compete cyano, dino, hair algae, diatoms, etc etc.

Getting this tank back in the right direction involves adding life to the tank. You opt'd for dry rock to reduce negative hitchhikers, I get that. You did however, neglected to add the positive ones. When you are ready to add life to the tank you can remove the nutrient reducing media. Add a piece of live rock big enough for you to manage any bad hitchhikers. Then look into getting some real live sand and mud from Indo-Pacific Sea Farms or from a large healthy tank. Although, even some of the healthiest tanks in the hobby don't come with the amount of life that IPSF provides. Diversify your bacteria, your microbial communities, and start adding more corals, and you'll see a this tank take off in a better direction.

 

[Makers Marc]

Well. Pretty important update perhaps to share.

It's officially been 24 hrs since I did the peroxide test on the sample algae of 2 cups of tank water + 1ml of peroxide.

The algae hasnt changed one bit nor is their pink. So this means its spirulina right?

Should my plan of action stay the same?

 

[Makers Marc]

Experts,

Today is day 1 of me reducing feeding but had one last question/observation, that might be helpful in advising me.

Many people state cyano/spirulina disappears or reduces after the lights go off.

This algae does NOT reduce or disappear at lights out.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Experts,

Today is day 1 of me reducing feeding but had one last question/observation, that might be helpful in advising me.

Many people state cyano/spirulina disappears or reduces after the lights go off.

This algae does NOT reduce or disappear at lights out.

I'm not so sure you have spirulina. I think it's more of the blue green cyano. I would siphon out as much as possible.