Growth to RTN

[Waters]

Sps or acro?

Sorry, Acros.

 

[Waters]

I think that you can eliminate Phosphate highs and lows as the cause. You might have to get up .5 or 1.0 or more to really slow down growth.

Having zero is no good. If you are using the 736 Hannah Low range checker, then I would try and keep between 2 and 5 in there. 2-3 is my target which is near what seawater is in RHF parameter papers. I might suggest that you cut back on the GFO so that you show some phosphates... low is not a problem, but zero can be.

Yeah, I agree. I have been trying to increase phosphates slowly over time by reducing GFO and feedings. Still doesn't seem to want to rise. I am adding a few extra fish in the next couple weeks as well.

 

[McMullen]

Sooooo it's likely nutrients and the problem is exacerbated during periods of rapid growth....cough cough.

@saltyfilmfolks, I don't know what sickly means. Immunocompromised? Or a general term when someone isn't feeling well? Though I appreciate the analogy (and I'm taking it too literally), the acros are not sickly. They're healthy as evidenced by rapid growth and alk consumption, then run out of food.

 

[Acrostick]

There are still a few things we do not know about the system. How many fish are in the tank? A list of fish would help. Also you said you don't cut off the bases of the corals since they are already encrusted. In my experience fighting and losing the battle to black bugs thus is a big NO NO. I didn't cut 2 sps off of their plugs and it bit me in the backside hard. That being said I'm guessing no quarantine tank for the corals? What do you use to dip the corals with? I'm not being judgemental just trying to keep our minds open and try to help you out. This hobby can be rewarding one day and mind-boggling the next. Another idea of maybe sending a triton test on the tank AND newly mixed rodi saltwater may give an answer.

 

[Waters]

There are still a few things we do not know about the system. How many fish are in the tank? A list of fish would help. Also you said you don't cut off the bases of the corals since they are already encrusted. In my experience fighting and losing the battle to black bugs thus is a big NO NO. I didn't cut 2 sps off of their plugs and it bit me in the backside hard. That being said I'm guessing no quarantine tank for the corals? What do you use to dip the corals with? I'm not being judgemental just trying to keep our minds open and try to help you out. This hobby can be rewarding one day and mind-boggling the next. Another idea of maybe sending a triton test on the tank AND newly mixed rodi saltwater may give an answer.

No worries.....the more people that question me, the better chance I have to figure it out. I normally do cut the frag off of the plug......the issue is the frag is encrusted onto the rock within the DT. No, I do not quarantine the coral at all. They are dipped in Revive and nothing more. I don't "think" it is a pest issue though....the cycle of good to bad wouldn't make any sense. As far as the fish, it is a 131 total gallon system (105 gallon DT) with only 5 fish...none bigger than 4 inches. I have considered sending the water out for analysis......I was hoping it was going to be an easy fix before I went that route. Doesn't appear that will be the case lol.

 

[Acrostick]

With only 5 small to medium fish it very well could be that the corals are starving. How much and how often do you feed the fish? Also what are the 5 fish in the system?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Sooooo it's likely nutrients and the problem is exacerbated during periods of rapid growth....cough cough.

@saltyfilmfolks, I don't know what sickly means. Immunocompromised? Or a general term when someone isn't feeling well? Though I appreciate the analogy (and I'm taking it too literally), the acros are not sickly. They're healthy as evidenced by rapid growth and alk consumption, then run out of food.

Lol. Sickly is how I'd define most of my acros.
Seriously , after putting up with my learning curve with them,(some for 2+years) many have and will grow really well even though they are browned or burnt or flow deprived depending on the torture I inflicted. So when I've done something really dumb it seems that one goes first. Or the area on that colony that was starting to heal.

As far as the cause in the OPs tank, dunno. We're all spitballing based on how we killed ours in the past.

 

[Waters]

With only 5 small to medium fish it very well could be that the corals are starving. How much and how often do you feed the fish? Also what are the 5 fish in the system?

There are a pair of bird wrasses, as small Picasso Trigger, a large Pajama Cardinal, and a Kole Tang. They are fed 1-2 times per day. Nitrates do sit at 5 all the time....phosphates don't usually register but I always am growing a small amount of hair algae so there must be some present.

 

[Waters]

Lol. Sickly is how I'd define most of my acros.
Seriously , after putting up with my learning curve with them,(some for 2+years) many have and will grow really well even though they are browned or burnt or flow deprived depending on the torture I inflicted. So when I've done something really dumb it seems that one goes first. Or the area on that colony that was starting to heal.

As far as the cause in the OPs tank, dunno. We're all spitballing based on how we killed ours in the past.

lol sounds like my tank(s) as well

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

lol sounds like my tank(s) as well

That's Reefing!!

 

[BluewaterLa]

There are a pair of bird wrasses, as small Picasso Trigger, a large Pajama Cardinal, and a Kole Tang. They are fed 1-2 times per day. Nitrates do sit at 5 all the time....phosphates don't usually register but I always am growing a small amount of hair algae so there must be some present.

I would also recommend getting a second test done on the nitrates as test kits do and will go bad or start to give false readings.
I use Red Sea Pro test kits almost exclusively, while many brands can differ in results consistency is king as we all know, I've had my Nitrate test kit give me false readings on two different kits/ time periods. Reading was a constant like yours until I started loosing some LPS or tissue recession along with some sps / acro's not doing so well only to test with another kit or brand and get a clear/ Zero reading.
Starving corals is a real issue with todays equipment being WAY better/ efficient Vs. older along with only having five fish in your tank I would tend to think that Nutrients is the actual ticket to fixing this repetitive loop. Add some more fish to get that good ole poop in there is one way.
Some other ways would be to up the amount of amino acids dosed to the system, just monitor for growth of algae/ slime usually lime green that comes with too much additional Amino's. Another thing I started doing was using Mesh socks rather than the felt socks and allowed my sump to get a little dirty. I stir up this flock from time to time and allow it to flow through the tank at night which clears up rather quickly.
I really hope that you get this ordeal past you and your tank starts to blossom again..
Good luck and happy reefing
BluewaterLa / Mike

 

[Waters]

I would also recommend getting a second test done on the nitrates as test kits do and will go bad or start to give false readings.
I use Red Sea Pro test kits almost exclusively, while many brands can differ in results consistency is king as we all know, I've had my Nitrate test kit give me false readings on two different kits/ time periods. Reading was a constant like yours until I started loosing some LPS or tissue recession along with some sps / acro's not doing so well only to test with another kit or brand and get a clear/ Zero reading.
Starving corals is a real issue with todays equipment being WAY better/ efficient Vs. older along with only having five fish in your tank I would tend to think that Nutrients is the actual ticket to fixing this repetitive loop. Add some more fish to get that good ole poop in there is one way.
Some other ways would be to up the amount of amino acids dosed to the system, just monitor for growth of algae/ slime usually lime green that comes with too much additional Amino's. Another thing I started doing was using Mesh socks rather than the felt socks and allowed my sump to get a little dirty. I stir up this flock from time to time and allow it to flow through the tank at night which clears up rather quickly.
I really hope that you get this ordeal past you and your tank starts to blossom again..
Good luck and happy reefing
BluewaterLa / Mike

Like you, I also use Red Sea for most tests but I have checked the nitrate readings with Salifert also. I do have the ability to dose Nitrates since I have all of my stuff from my freshwater planted tank days but, if my testing is correct, it doesn't appear to be needed at the moment. I have also already started dosing the Acropower daily as well as dosing Reef Roids more often throughout the week. I added two new Acros this weekend so we will see what happens

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Your running carbon in a reactor yes?
Also gfo in a reactor?
And you've tried pulling the gfo entirely ?

You don't have outside air for the the skimmer? It's a scrubber. And no correlation on changing the media?

What other coral do you have? And have you been adding more during this time?

 

[Hedgedrew66]

If your doing lot of water changes I would advise you to change your salt. Lot of us guys over at the old forum had big issues frying coral using Red Sea blue. We think it's the amount of magenesse in new fresh salt and the resulting photosynthesis catalysts that brings. Anyway that's my advise. I fried plenty of coral with that salt. So did others.

 

[Hedgedrew66]

If you go to any triton test of just freshly mixed salt and ro you will see the elevated levels of mn and it is never in tank water cause it absorbed in photosynthesis.

 

[Hedgedrew66]

If you go to any triton test of just freshly mixed salt and ro you will see the elevated levels of mn and it is never in tank water cause it absorbed in photosynthesis.

I suspect others who do not have this issue either change less water at a time or have lower levels of par for light.

 

[Velcro]

I actually check ALK daily now....just to catch possible swings. Phosphates normally read 0 on both the Hanna and Salifert......if anything they are too low but that wouldn't cause RTN

Yes... yes it could. I've had sps lose tissue at the base and continue to RTN after my phosphate falls to 0 (0ppb phosphorous) on the hanna phosphorous checker. I've had WAY more issues with 0 phosphate then I have ever had at "elevated" levels. If you are running GFO I'd stop. If you are doing something else to consume phosphate (refugium or carbon dosing) I'd dose phosphates. I dose 0.1 ppm phosphate a day with my current carbon dosing setup.

 

[Hedgedrew66]

I agree with Velcro too. Highest time of stn incidence is after large water changes depending on salt or gfo change.

 

[Waters]

Yes... yes it could. I've had sps lose tissue at the base and continue to RTN after my phosphate falls to 0 (0ppb phosphorous) on the hanna phosphorous checker. I've had WAY more issues with 0 phosphate then I have ever had at "elevated" levels. If you are running GFO I'd stop. If you are doing something else to consume phosphate (refugium or carbon dosing) I'd dose phosphates. I dose 0.1 ppm phosphate a day with my current carbon dosing setup.

Well, I am an idiot I have been using the Hanna checker, thinking I purchased the Low range...turns out it wasn't. I bought the low range meter and am getting a reading of 4, which would be .01464 after doing the math to convert it to phosphate. I assume that is OK or still too low?

 

[Waters]

If your doing lot of water changes I would advise you to change your salt. Lot of us guys over at the old forum had big issues frying coral using Red Sea blue. We think it's the amount of magenesse in new fresh salt and the resulting photosynthesis catalysts that brings. Anyway that's my advise. I fried plenty of coral with that salt. So did others.

Hmmm...interesting. I have not heard this before....gonna have to look into it. Thanks. I do weekly water changes of roughly 15% currently.