guidance on QT for labouti wrasse

[david p.]

Hi,

My Labouti wrasse is in QT since March-25 (little more than a week).
QT is a 10g tank, with powerhead, hangback filter, heater. Did 50% waterchange on day 4, and 75% on day 7. I use 50% DT water and 50% new water.

For the first week everything was good, fish was eating, swiming, he was pretty active.

Yesterday morning he did not eat, he seemed more 'calm'. In the evening, he did not eat either and I noticed 'heavier' breathing. And he was trying to hide.i did another 50% WC on diner time, then another 50% late evening. And started prazipro treatment this morning. This morning, he was still more passive, staying in a corner of the QT.

No external sign of any kind, colors and skin still looking healthy. i see nothing that could look like the usual velvet, brook, ich,etc

maybe one last info, the LFS had the fish for about a month before i bought it, the fish was healthy. i assume that any severe infection would have been seen. (is still QT anyway).

Any advice on treatment ? or just patience ?

 

[Brew12]

Hi,

My Labouti wrasse is in QT since March-25 (little more than a week).
QT is a 10g tank, with powerhead, hangback filter, heater. Did 50% waterchange on day 4, and 75% on day 7. I use 50% DT water and 50% new water.

For the first week everything was good, fish was eating, swiming, he was pretty active.

Yesterday morning he did not eat, he seemed more 'calm'. In the evening, he did not eat either and I noticed 'heavier' breathing. And he was trying to hide.i did another 50% WC on diner time, then another 50% late evening. And started prazipro treatment this morning. This morning, he was still more passive, staying in a corner of the QT.

No external sign of any kind, colors and skin still looking healthy. i see nothing that could look like the usual velvet, brook, ich,etc

maybe one last info, the LFS had the fish for about a month before i bought it, the fish was healthy. i assume that any severe infection would have been seen. (is still QT anyway).

Any advice on treatment ? or just patience ?

Are you having ammonia issues that is causing you to do so many water changes?

Do you know if your LFS runs low levels of copper in their system? This is notorious for hiding velvet and ich which will then show up 1 to 3 weeks after the fish comes home. My biggest concern would be velvet that is just heavily concentrated in the gills.

 

[Humblefish]

Are you having ammonia issues that is causing you to do so many water changes?

Do you know if your LFS runs low levels of copper in their system? This is notorious for hiding velvet and ich which will then show up 1 to 3 weeks after the fish comes home. My biggest concern would be velvet that is just heavily concentrated in the gills.

^^ Excellent questions

 

[david p.]

Are you having ammonia issues that is causing you to do so many water changes?

Do you know if your LFS runs low levels of copper in their system? This is notorious for hiding velvet and ich which will then show up 1 to 3 weeks after the fish comes home. My biggest concern would be velvet that is just heavily concentrated in the gills.

Hi,
usually i keep small media bag in my sump so it is seeded properly for my hang on filter. For this QT, media was in my sump for less than a week, that's why i planned and did the first 50% water change, jsut in case, I did not test for amonia. I tested before the 75% WC on day 7, everything was fine, i just did a huge WC because i did my WC on my DT and i had all that water available.
I did not test yesterday for amonia since 75% the WC done on the previous saturday. Just di 2x50% water change just in case it was from water quality.

I will double check for the copper thing. i know he had Velvet issues in one of his system, but the system my fish is from independant from the problematic system and all the fish in that tank were healthy and the remaining fish are still healthy.

i'll reply as soon as i get confirmation for the copper.

 

[Brew12]

Hi,
usually i keep small media bag in my sump so it is seeded properly for my hang on filter. For this QT, media was in my sump for less than a week, that's why i planned and did the first 50% water change, jsut in case, I did not test for amonia. I tested before the 75% WC on day 7, everything was fine, i just did a huge WC because i did my WC on my DT and i had all that water available.
I did not test yesterday for amonia since 75% the WC done on the previous saturday. Just di 2x50% water change just in case it was from water quality.

I will double check for the copper thing. i know he had Velvet issues in one of his system, but the system my fish is from independant from the problematic system and all the fish in that tank were healthy and the remaining fish are still healthy.

i'll reply as soon as i get confirmation for the copper.

Just remember that water changes can be stressful for a fish, also. It is important to do them but you should try to not do too many of them. Fish in QT tend to be stressed and that makes them vulnerable to illness. The more you can do to reduce that stress the better.

I would also point out that if he had Velvet in one of his systems it is likely he has it in all of his systems. The Velvet had to come from somewhere and the most likely place is his wholesaler. If the fish shared water at the wholesaler then odds are they all had Velvet. Most LFS's do run two separate systems. One with fish and inverts and one with just fish. I always prefer to look for fish sharing water with inverts because you can be assured there isn't copper in the water. When a fish in the clean water starts showing symptoms they tend to move them into the fish only system with treated water. Not saying your LFS does this, but it is way too common. It is also why I treat all my fish with copper proactively.

 

[david p.]

Just remember that water changes can be stressful for a fish, also. It is important to do them but you should try to not do too many of them. Fish in QT tend to be stressed and that makes them vulnerable to illness. The more you can do to reduce that stress the better.

I would also point out that if he had Velvet in one of his systems it is likely he has it in all of his systems. The Velvet had to come from somewhere and the most likely place is his wholesaler. If the fish shared water at the wholesaler then odds are they all had Velvet. Most LFS's do run two separate systems. One with fish and inverts and one with just fish. I always prefer to look for fish sharing water with inverts because you can be assured there isn't copper in the water. When a fish in the clean water starts showing symptoms they tend to move them into the fish only system with treated water. Not saying your LFS does this, but it is way too common. It is also why I treat all my fish with copper proactively.

1. He was not treating with any med before or after i got my fish.

2. it could be stress, I will go easy from now on

3. In that tank, it's his high end fish, he had no recent addition as per the seller. And it's not a huge LFS, he's importing fish and sells them from his house, he is well installed. He has a pretty solid reputation, but who knows... i'll be on the watch for any velvet signs.

 

[david p.]

got home, fish still barely moving, seems healthy but just hanging in the corner of the tank, breathing seem normal.
i noticed some kinda white poop (beside the pellet):

 

[david p.]

can a fish be constipated ? during the first week, i tried to feed the fish small portion mutliple time a day to see what he was eating as i usually do, i dont want food siting in the QT. he was eating a lot... could it be the new food/pellet that got him that way ?

 

[Brew12]

can a fish be constipated ? during the first week, i tried to feed the fish small portion mutliple time a day to see what he was eating as i usually do, i dont want food siting in the QT. he was eating a lot... could it be the new food/pellet that got him that way ?

Yup, they sure can. Feeding them a cooked pea is a great way to "clean them out".

 

[Brew12]

noticed some kinda white poop (beside the pellet):

That is a sure sign of an internal parasite.

I recommend reading this for treatment options.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/internal-parasites-intestinal-worms.267419/

 

[david p.]

That is a sure sign of an internal parasite.

I recommend reading this for treatment options.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/internal-parasites-intestinal-worms.267419/

thx, will read. i already started prazipro. i'll do a second treatment in ~3 days.

i will add live rock in my QT after prazipro, in case media is not enought. will have to decon those rocks after wards.

Will cook 1 pea...

 

[melypr1985]

I agree. The white stringy poop is a clear sign of intestinal parasites. You can go ahead and start feeding metroplex + focus in his food if he is still eating.

 

[david p.]

I agree. The white stringy poop is a clear sign of intestinal parasites. You can go ahead and start feeding metroplex + focus in his food if he is still eating.

i only have acces to Metro+, i believe it's the same active ingredient than metroplex. don't have acces to focus either.. is Metro+ enough ?

fish did not eat the pea... tried corn... he touched it.. not sure it will work.. but i know the effect when i eat to much of it, hopefully it does the same to him
thanks

david

 

[Brew12]

i only have acces to Metro+, i believe it's the same active ingredient than metroplex. don't have acces to focus either.. is Metro+ enough ?

fish did not eat the pea... tried corn... he touched it.. not sure it will work.. but i know the effect when i eat to much of it, hopefully it does the same to him
thanks

david

I wouldn't worry about the pea at this point. Metro+ should work fine. Focus isn't a medication, it only helps hold medication to the food. Here are the directions on how to make food out of Metro+ to treat internal parasites.
http://www.hikariusa.com/articles/medicated-feed/

 

[david p.]

I wouldn't worry about the pea at this point. Metro+ should work fine. Focus isn't a medication, it only helps hold medication to the food. Here are the directions on how to make food out of Metro+ to treat internal parasites.
http://www.hikariusa.com/articles/medicated-feed/

yeah, already went on their site. it complicated!!!
found online people using it on frozen food, will try this tonight, ill get the gelatin tomorrow.

fish still look healty, so i'm not worried... yet... he still pretty relax, barely swims, but looks good from the outside.

 

[Brew12]

yeah, already went on their site. it complicated!!!
found online people using it on frozen food, will try this tonight, ill get the gelatin tomorrow.

fish still look healty, so i'm not worried... yet... he still pretty relax, barely swims, but looks good from the outside.

The important part is to get him started on the meds before he stops eating.

 

[melypr1985]

I wouldn't worry about the pea at this point. Metro+ should work fine. Focus isn't a medication, it only helps hold medication to the food. Here are the directions on how to make food out of Metro+ to treat internal parasites.
http://www.hikariusa.com/articles/medicated-feed/

Yes, the metro+ will work just fine... the problem is binding the med to the food so that they get enough into their gut. you can try it of course, but you may end up just dosing it in the water since he's in QT. They drink some of the water they are in so it's likely some will make it to the gut.

 

[4FordFamily]

Also, important for you and the casual reader to know that wrassse can mask any noticeable spots for ich and velvet and still die due to gill infestation. They have strong mucous coats and many sleep in the sand or in mucous cocoons that keep the parasite at bay, but they still make great surrogates/carriers of these parasites.

 

[david p.]

Also, important for you and the casual reader to know that wrassse can mask any noticeable spots for ich and velvet and still die due to gill infestation. They have strong mucous coats and many sleep in the sand or in mucous cocoons that keep the parasite at bay, but they still make great surrogates/carriers of these parasites.

any visible signs for gill infection ?
breathing seem normal to me. other than been passive i have no other indications of desease.

QT is much more simpler when you see something... so you can treat adequatly !!!

 

[4FordFamily]

any visible signs for gill infection ?
breathing seem normal to me. other than been passive i have no other indications of desease.

QT is much more simpler when you see something... so you can treat adequatly !!!

My rule of thumb is that every fish has ich or velvet. In the distribution system today, it's probably 99% correct. That said, several fish may never show symptoms. They'll be carriers. Add an Achilles or PBT and you'll know soon enough!

If no heavy breathing I would guess neither is the issue.