Guilt in the reefing hobby

[mijan]

First World problems.

 

[rob s.]

You seem very passionate about this topic. I wonder why you it triggers you so much that you need to name call. We are omnivores which means that we don’t need to eat animals to live. It’s a choice that involves suffering and destruction. And, in fact, more pollution than all of the locomotive pollution In the world combined.

Thank you for what you do. That’s more than many people do and the time you take definitely shows your character.

You call it “passing asinine judgment” however I call it being a voice for the voiceless. An animal rights activist.

so release all your fish and replant your corals in the enviorment they come from or your just being fake. You cant have it both ways.... i stand firmly behind my beliefs and try my best not to act contradictorily in my actions or pass judgement on those who feel different. That's why you struck a nerve. You so easily say one thing about the ocean and its well being yet keep a tank full of its inhabitants. Do you not see the irony in your words vs. your actions. This conversation is a microcosm of what happening all around our country rite now, can't you see that. You pass your judgement of wrong or rite and then your actions are the exact opposite of what you claim.

 

[rob s.]

Why does everything have to turn into a fight?

i apologize if you feel bothered by my reponses. I am not fighting but mearly pointing out how ridiculous it is to pass judgement on someone you don't even know. As you can read he or she had no response to the clothing or transportation questions i asked. I just have no patience for Fake judgement that's only goes to makling the person passing their judgement down feel better about themselves. Once again sorry if i offended you.

 

[lion king]

Yes I am extremely guilty, If I could I would shut it all down. I started more than 30 years ago and was naive and the industry as a whole had a much difference outlook. I wish it wasn't here, but it is, and maybe I'm a hypocrite for being involved. I started my lion rescue about 9 years ago, these among others have a very high mortality rate, almost none live much more than a year or so, while they live 10-15 years in the wild. If it was all shut down, i would gladly give up all my fish, until then, i save the ones I can.

 

[ichthyogeek]

Huh, so this is what happens in the multi-page threads...maybe I should comment on more of those...

 

[jasonrusso]

i apologize if you feel bothered by my reponses. I am not fighting but mearly pointing out how ridiculous it is to pass judgement on someone you don't even know. As you can read he or she had no response to the clothing or transportation questions i asked. I just have no patience for Fake judgement that's only goes to makling the person passing their judgement down feel better about themselves. Once again sorry if i offended you.

Not offended, but you guys are derailing the thread.

 

[jkr]

I totally get where you're coming from. It's certainly not black and white. Captive bred is pretty much always better for many reasons however in my time keeping animals I've seen a change in the fundamental beliefs of how animals should be kept. The idea a few years ago was typically to recreate nature as close as possible, these animals have evolved to live in these places and that should be replicated.

However more recently the train of thought seems to be that these animals have evolved to survive not necessarily thrive. The circle of life does not discriminate and animals have evolved to survive incredibly harsh conditions, pressure from predators and disease etc. Nature is harsh and all living things are constantly fighting to exist.

Personally I think that if there is any hope for humanity at this point a large part of that will be understanding our connection with nature and an appreciation for all living things. I think keeping animals in captivity is very important to maintain that connection, raise awareness and share the beauty of the ocean with others. With those reasons in mind I only feel guilty if I fail to provide an animal with what it needs to thrive.

How very lucky are we to be part of life’s eternal rhyme! I think we all do our best to keep our fish alive and healthy, I’ve got a clown that I have had for at least 15 years !

 

[Zionas]

Nice! Do you have any other fish that you’ve kept for over a decade?

 

[H3rm1tCr@b]

I only feel guilty when a creature seems unhappy or dies. After all, they are much safer in my tank than in the ocean. Btw I think fish are absolutely delicious and one of the best foods you can eat. I think it's perfectly sustainable as long as we watch for overfishing.

 

[jasonrusso]

I only feel guilty when a creature seems unhappy or dies. After all, they are much safer in my tank than in the ocean. Btw I think fish are absolutely delicious and one of the best foods you can eat. I think it's perfectly sustainable as long as we watch for overfishing.
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I only feel guilty when a creature seems unhappy or dies. After all, they are much safer in my tank than in the ocean. Btw I think fish are absolutely delicious and one of the best foods you can eat. I think it's perfectly sustainable as long as we watch for overfishing.

My eel has been under the same rock for the last 4 years. No one is trying to eat him.

He gets fed at least 2 times a week and whatever he can scavenge. I think he has it pretty good.

 

[Karen00]

Hey all,

I was just wondering if anyone feels guilty about keeping these tropical fish in our tanks. I was just reading about how they're stunned and captured, and many of them die during the process.

I just have been feeling a little guilty about taking them from their native homes, and putting them in these restrictive tanks, what do you guys think- just wondering about other people's opinions.

I'm a little late replying but thought I would add my 2 cents. I'm still a freshwater person at the moment while I sort through my plan for a saltwater tank but it still applies. I always try to adhere to the minimum tank size for each species and how many of each species can be kept together in each size of tanks I have (as well as total capacity). Where I feel guilty is when I lose a fish to anything other than a natural old age death. I keep thinking they might still be alive had they been under the care of someone else or had they still been at the LFS or still out in the wild (if wild caught which some of mine are). I always feel horrible. At the same time I know some of the environments where my freshwater fish come from are becoming so polluted that I look at them in my clean, stable, harmonized tanks and I think I'm actually doing them a favor and I most likely saved them from a gruesome life!!

 

[rob s.]

Not offended, but you guys are derailing the thread.

how so?

 

[rob s.]

Anthropomorphizing fish will lead to guilt for many I suppose.

Duval huh? you still supporting the Jags?

 

[boacvh]

Nope. Zero guilt. I also love zoos, public aquariums and sea world.

 

[Engrene4]

well that hit a nerve

 

[CubsFan]

how so?

Duval huh? you still supporting the Jags?

Either Rob S suffers from an astounding lack of self awareness or he is freaking hilarious. It amuses me.

 

[Karen00]

On the online stores captive bred is more expensive- is this because they survive better?

I would have to agree with some of the other members when they said it's more likely due to the cost of raising whatever aquatic creature it is to a stage at which it can be sold.

I try to buy captive bred whenever possible but that option wasn't available for a pair of gobies I wanted so they're wild caught. Now I'm trying to do captive breeding with them in hopes of providing a more sustainable option for that species.

Having said that the rearing of theses gobies is a long process. They are slow growers and at 1-1/2 years old they are only now at a stage where I would feel comfortable selling them. That's a year and a half of food, water changes, etc. not to mention the new tank I had to setup for them (equipment, etc).

When it comes to selling wild caught I think my supplier only has them in store for a couple weeks before they're all sold so not much expense incurred on his part. He's interested in captive breeding but not doing it himself so he partners with customers like me who are interested in this to try and get captive bred stock into his store but they will probably cost more than the wild caught ones.

 

[Karen00]

The only guilt I feel is perpetuating a hobby that can be easy to abuse. Many get into it not doing the proper research and the animals they get suffer as a result. But regardless whether or not you get out of the hobby, the hobby is not going to stop. So to assuage our guilt, we should always be ready, willing and able to share knowledge and experience and maybe even a frag or two to people just starting out. And continue our own education and remember that no matter how long you have been doing it, you don't know everything. Guilt can be a useful emotion. In this instance it can help to keep respect for the animals in our care and the environment they come from as a whole.

Very well said. I would like to see this hobby move entirely to captive bred and hopefully that happens some day. The member who posted about mortality rates during capture and shipping is right and we shouldn't be accepting of that kind of loss. I am absolutely willing to pay more for captive bred fish if it means I'm doing my part in making the hobby more humane and protective of the planet. Having said that when it comes to the disastrous effects that climate change and pollution are having on the aquatic world we might just be doing them a favor putting them into our tanks as long as we are responsible in keeping them healthy and in tanks that allow them to thrive.

 

[Sump Crab]

Duval huh? you still supporting the Jags?

kind of on the fence about the jags and nfl in general due to stuff I disagree with....


But i love the kid minshew so im torn

 

[Loggerhead]

Honestly, if I felt guilty I wouldn’t keep a tank.