**GURUs** EXPERTs** lets stop killing fish!

[Paul B]

I have to say, I believe your thinking is a bit dated.

Nobody uses under gravel filters anymore,

.

"WHAT"!!!!! Blasphemy....... I am "somebody". An Old Coot maybe but still somebody. But I am glad no one uses UG filters any more. I like having the oldest tank on here and do you know what I like even better? No, besides Supermodels. I like having the oldest tank "and" having the oldest tank where I never have to quarantine, "and" have the fish live forever, or at least 24 years. I like the fact that my UG filtered tank has fish in it that are immune from everything except maybe spawning to much. I also like the fact that being I don't have to quarantine, I don't lose fish in a few days. I also think ammonia, while great for cleaning windows will not build up in any tank that is even a few months old no matter how slow your fish are or what pockets they live in. I do like the OPs position on UG filters though and believe DSBs are just silly. As for experience I have fish since 1952. That was last century just after Lincoln was President. I also have salt water fish from 10 minutes after they were imported to the US. Maybe 15, I forget.
One more thing. Regular UG filters won't work in salt water, as I am the God of under gravel filters in salt water. They must be run very slow and in reverse as mine has been running, non stop since 1971, I think it was on a Tuesday, about 1:00 or 1;30 in the afternoon.

 

[brandon429]

by dropping and running, this OP brought the proofs out of the rockwork. perhaps he's lurking even still./ he will be impressed at what non engineers did and is swooning over it in silence or as a blocked log in.

 

[Reef4Rose]

Totally confused. Paul B says good people aren't using anymore but he has used for years?

I did tanks in the 80's and undergravel was the norm. My set up was 4 standpipes with power heads on each for a 125 tank. Air stone skimmer which probably didn't do a whole lot. I had no issues with fish death. Lots of water flow. My set up was out of a book and LFS advice. I also used a diatom canister filter maybe once a month.

Seems pulling water through a bed of a couple inches of ph buffering crushed coral would be beneficial? Reverse flow on under gravel should not trap as much under the plates? I would like to employ as many positive filtration and water treatment methods as possible.

Currently researching getting back into the hobby. This forum will prove to be very helpful in getting things right and I want to do it right. I am going big hopefully 300 plus gallons maybe as high as 500. Start out as FOWLR moving toward having corals.

Any and all advice guidance and comments are welcomed.

 

[donnievaz]

Sorry for the rant from a R2R-newbee. However... I did saltwater 20 years ago... and I know that losing a new-fish within 3-days sucks, and is not normal. Without my prior experience... I would have given up by now. Bottom-line... Ammonia kills fish.

I'm a little unclear on how YOU killing fish in 3 days translates to the community at large having a crisis that needs to be solved... I don't have that problem and I don't think the vast majority of the rest of us do either. If you're looking for help you certainly came to the right place but you sure have a weird way of asking for it.

 

[jsker]

Totally confused. Paul B says good people aren't using anymore but he has used for years?

I did tanks in the 80's and undergravel was the norm. My set up was 4 standpipes with power heads on each for a 125 tank. Air stone skimmer which probably didn't do a whole lot. I had no issues with fish death. Lots of water flow. My set up was out of a book and LFS advice. I also used a diatom canister filter maybe once a month.

Seems pulling water through a bed of a couple inches of ph buffering crushed coral would be beneficial? Reverse flow on under gravel should not trap as much under the plates? I would like to employ as many positive filtration and water treatment methods as possible.

Currently researching getting back into the hobby. This forum will prove to be very helpful in getting things right and I want to do it right. I am going big hopefully 300 plus gallons maybe as high as 500. Start out as FOWLR moving toward having corals.

Any and all advice guidance and comments are welcomed.

First off you are doing the right thing, by asking questions before you start up again. I started up a new system after taking a 10 year break with out knowing about R2R, and have made a few mistakes with out knowing about all the new product available now. I think I have spent about $500+ making these mistakes.

I am glad and feel like when I ask a question here, just because I have been reefing for a very long time no one be little each other here, so now I ask the simplest question and get not one but many options I can think about and use as I make tweaks to my system.

Right a budget
Plan a head for the future for a full blow reef
get good lights especially if you start leaning towords sps corals
look into a controller for all you pumps that you will be using and turning off and on at some point for maintenance and feeding
Purchase good power heads that will work with your controller and modules
Find a reef club near you, these guys can help you out with parts, fish, frag swaps, and in general.

And Lastly welcome to R2R and welcome back, I look forward to your tank build

 

[jsker]

I'm a little unclear on how YOU killing fish in 3 days translates to the community at large having a crisis that needs to be solved... I don't have that problem and I don't think the vast majority of the rest of us do either. If you're looking for help you certainly came to the right place but you sure have a weird way of asking for it.

@Reef4Rose found a thread that has not be post on in a year and was saying hello

 

[jsker]

@Reef4Rose you can go here and start a thread with you post and watch the response you will get reefer will come out of the water to introduce themselves

 

[brandon429]

Reef for Rose

The hip thing people do nowadays is simply not store up detritus. It's not that the old ways of doing that are wrong, it's that alternate methods give alternate results after years/varying timespans. Some want the cleaner approach when they have to move, upgrade, or delve into the tank for one or more reasons

I ran a hands off sandbed for a few years they have their pros as well, it's the ability to vary the design now, moving forward with alternates, that separates two reefing decades online.

 

[reeferfoxx]

"WHAT"!!!!! Blasphemy....... I am "somebody". An Old Coot maybe but still somebody. But I am glad no one uses UG filters any more. I like having the oldest tank on here and do you know what I like even better? No, besides Supermodels. I like having the oldest tank "and" having the oldest tank where I never have to quarantine, "and" have the fish live forever, or at least 24 years. I like the fact that my UG filtered tank has fish in it that are immune from everything except maybe spawning to much. I also like the fact that being I don't have to quarantine, I don't lose fish in a few days. I also think ammonia, while great for cleaning windows will not build up in any tank that is even a few months old no matter how slow your fish are or what pockets they live in. I do like the OPs position on UG filters though and believe DSBs are just silly. As for experience I have fish since 1952. That was last century just after Lincoln was President. I also have salt water fish from 10 minutes after they were imported to the US. Maybe 15, I forget.
One more thing. Regular UG filters won't work in salt water, as I am the God of under gravel filters in salt water. They must be run very slow and in reverse as mine has been running, non stop since 1971, I think it was on a Tuesday, about 1:00 or 1;30 in the afternoon.

DSB are even becoming a thing of the past! I saw one tank where they added just enough sand under the rocks to keep their pistol shrimp busy.

I love reading threads like this. I hope the OP can take some notes. R2R is the place to be!

 

[Humblefish]

I did tanks in the 80's and undergravel was the norm. My set up was 4 standpipes with power heads on each for a 125 tank. Air stone skimmer which probably didn't do a whole lot. I had no issues with fish death. Lots of water flow. My set up was out of a book and LFS advice. I also used a diatom canister filter maybe once a month.

Seems pulling water through a bed of a couple inches of ph buffering crushed coral would be beneficial? Reverse flow on under gravel should not trap as much under the plates? I would like to employ as many positive filtration and water treatment methods as possible.

I did the same back in the 80s, using undergravel filters with lift tubes/airstones before "upgrading" to powerheads. And honestly, there's no reason why you can't still do this in a fish only system or with hardy soft corals. The problem is detritus will invariably start to collect under the filter plate, causing nitrates to rise. And many corals, especially SPS, just can't handle high nitrates levels.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

In my tiny strange mind, I have been considering this. What would happen if I used all this 21st century technology and made a reverse UG. Oversize dc control able. I could back flush it and ramp it to full and blow the snot balls out of it.

 

[Wilsoni]

My mind is blown right now. No comment

 

[Paul B]

Totally confused. Paul B says good people aren't using anymore but he has used for years?
.

He doesn't know what he is talking about and that is why I am not speaking to him any more.