Gutted

[chimbo84]

I ducked into my LFS yesterday and saw that they finally had a beautiful flame angel for a good price. This is a bucket list fish for me but was always a little out of reach at $200+. This one was listed for $150 so I excitedly pulled the trigger.

I got it home and slowly drip acclimated it into my QT tank where I like to keep new additions for a couple weeks. I don’t treat for anything; it is strictly an observational QT to make sure they’re healthy and eating well before going in my display tank.

Unfortunately, this morning I couldn’t find him and after a couple minutes of frantic searching, I found it stuck to the intake of the Nero3 powerhead. Not sure how long it had been there but it didn’t make it.

I feel absolutely terrible and responsible. I am heading back to the LFS right now but any idea what it could have been? It seemed to be eating and swimming lazily when I got it home but otherwise it seemed okay. I also bought a Darwin Clown at the same time and that fish is totally fine.

 

[HuduVudu]

@chimbo84 you are not directly responisble. You should not feel bad. The only mistake you made was not making a proper choice on LFSs. Your being excited clouded your judgement on what you should or should not look for, and this may be combined with your lack of knowledge. This gives you the two areas that you can work on to be in a better position on your next purchase. Be very wary of this store, and IMO all LFSs. I have found that there are very very very few that you should give your hard earned money to.

Sorry about your loss. For me it is devistating and infuriating to lose creatures, and pygmy angels are for me extra cute.

Just know this is a dirty low margin business and most of the people that inhabit it are ... let's just say ... unscrupulous.

 

[chimbo84]

@chimbo84 you are not directly responisble. You should not feel bad. The only mistake you made was not making a proper choice on LFSs. Your being excited clouded your judgement on what you should or should not look for, and this may be combined with your lack of knowledge. This gives you the two areas that you can work on to be in a better position on your next purchase. Be very wary of this store, and IMO all LFSs. I have found that there are very very very few that you should give your hard earned money to.

Sorry about your loss. For me it is devistating and infuriating to lose creatures, and pygmy angels are for me extra cute.

Just know this is a dirty low margin business and most of the people that inhabit it are ... let's just say ... unscrupulous.

I will say that the LFS is highly respected and has always provided healthy fish for me in the past. It is a shop that I and many reefers in my area trust.
Are flame angels particularly sensitive to stress? I’m just curious if they require a different acclimation procedure.

 

[Snoopy 67]

It's a crap shoot every time we get a fish. So many things we can't see could be wrong, OR just right.

 

[lion king]

If your acclimation was correct, meaning not raising sg to quickly, then it was likely an underlying condition triggered by the stress of the move. Unless you saw something odd these conditions would only be speculative, Many lfs and suppliers keep their sg super low, I've tested as low as 1.016. So testing the bag water and bringing your observation tank to match is the best way to go. Some of the most common conditions I've seen is if your lfs runs copper that could cause internal damage to some species, flame angels being sensitive to copper. I've dissected fish and seen this damage with my own eyes. A cyanide caught fish will sometimes seize and die and if you dissect them you will see blood in the internal cavity. These conditions get triggered with stress. If you still have the body and remember high school biology, dissect it and see what you find. There are tutorials all over youtube.

 

[HuduVudu]

I will say that the LFS is highly respected and has always provided healthy fish for me in the past. It is a shop that I and many reefers in my area trust.
Are flame angels particularly sensitive to stress? I’m just curious if they require a different acclimation procedure.

No more than any other fish.

Shock is real and this cause of death can't really be avoided IME. I have had many fish die in this manner.

I have tried many acclimation methods to overcome this path of demise and after many many years my final conclusion is that it can't be avoided. From this conclusion I have chosen to not bother with acclimation. Not acclimating has helped with the stress that comes with acclimation allowing me to save those fish that I might otherwise have lost to acclimation. Acclimation has a toll also and I have chosen the lesser of two evils by not acclimating.

 

[chimbo84]

No more than any other fish.

Shock is real and this cause of death can't really be avoided IME. I have had many fish die in this manner.

I have tried many acclimation methods to overcome this path of demise and after many many years my final conclusion is that it can't be avoided. From this conclusion I have chosen to not bother with acclimation. Not acclimating has helped with the stress that comes with acclimation allowing me to save those fish that I might otherwise have lost to acclimation. Acclimation has a toll also and I have chosen the lesser of two evils by not acclimating.

So when you get home with a new fish, do you just dump it in? Do you float the bag at least? What about differences in salinity?

 

[i cant think]

So when you get home with a new fish, do you just dump it in? Do you float the bag at least? What about differences in salinity?

I personally only float my fish, it reduces stress but also gives a barrier where the fish can see the current inhabitants but they can’t harm/stress out the newbie.

If your salinity is drastically different (less than what you currently are) then drip the new fish for 30 minutes, no more.

 

[Slocke]

I have almost killed fish to not acclimating for salinity so I go for a combo where I float and cup water in. I think one key is reducing stress. I suggest taking a black bag to your LFS (if they don't give you one) and keeping a new fish in there. Then keeping your lights off or low for as long as possible. Darkness significantly reduces stress IME.

 

[i cant think]

I have almost killed fish to not acclimating for salinity so I go for a combo where I float and cup water in. I think one key is reducing stress. I suggest taking a black bag to your LFS (if they don't give you one) and keeping a new fish in there. Then keeping your lights off or low for as long as possible. Darkness significantly reduces stress IME.

Also, if it’s a deep water species then try acclimate them to your lighting unless they’ve been in captivity for a long time (Several months, not just a week or two).

 

[AKL1950]

Did you have the LFS feed the fish for you before you took it? If it wasn’t eating well, it might have already been going south.

 

[HuduVudu]

So when you get home with a new fish, do you just dump it in? Do you float the bag at least? What about differences in salinity?

I float it for bit for temp acclimation and then I put the fish in.

Generally speaking your salinity will be such that you can not even come close to the salinity in the store. Because most stores use hyposalinity in their fish systems to deal with (in their minds) disease, you will most likely test the salinity in the bag near 1.019. I run a reef system and I am near 1.025. I used worry about this but repetition has shown me that this isn't as important as a factor.

One thing to note. I do usually turn out the lights when I introduce fish. I usually get fish during daylight hours and turning the light out when I start to float the fish, helps calm them and encourages other inhabitants to go into low light mode which at least for a short period of time tunes agression down.

I think the more useful view is to reduce stress. I know that most people see acclimation as a stress reducer and I have viewed it as such in the past, but empirically I can't make that assertion anymore.

 

[lion king]

Search "osmotic shock", you can find your own sources, here;s one, look at the section "osmotic shock". I have dealt with this more times than I can count in regard with local hobbyist and 2 of the lfs that practice low salinity. Situation is always remedied when the changes in salinity is addressed. It's not 100% of the time, its just one of the possible reasons of an unexplained death of a new addition.

http://www.fishyportal.com/cgi-bin/...h mortality rates among newly introduced fish.

 

[DCR]

The OP stated he trip acclimated. Flame angels seem to suffer more from shipping than many other dwarf angels IME. I don't know the reason, but you are far from being a minority in this type of experience with them. When you said the fish was swimming lazily, it was probably already doomed. If you can observe them of a week or even two in the LFS, your chances of success are much improved - although usually some one else will buy them if you try this. Alternatively you can purchase from on-line sources that QT. At least you know the fish has survived several weeks. Once you get them acclimated they are fairly hardy like most dwarf angels