Hair Algae thoughts

[money88]

So this tank is 6 months old to start. I have started to lower my light intensity and period to possibly help with it. My hair algae at this point is staying pretty maintainable but not something that I want to continue to get worse over time. It hasn't blown out of control at this point.

I am currently running my lights for about 10ish hours a day with a ramp up and ramp down and the last 2.5 ish hours on the ramp being only blue light. I run a refugium at with a Kessil H80 with caeto but that doesnt seem to be growing extremely fast either. I scrub as much of the GHA as I can on a weekly basis doing a water change as well.

I have been testing regularly and I have zero according the the test kit accuracy of nitrite, nitrate, ammonia, 0.25 of phosphate (this could be the culprit based on older threads I've read).

I have tried running just blues but that really didn't seem to help just kind of tick off my corals really. Do you think it is the phosphate in the tank? So should I run something like phosguard? Last time I ran phosguard my chaeto died pretty quickly most likely because there were no nutrients at all for it to live on.

Thanks for the advice

 

[mtraylor]

Yes phosphates can contribute to algae issues. You can try to lower gradually to help the problem. GFO will work as well.

What are all of your tank parms?

Also. I recommend you invest in a large clean up crew to help keep the algae at bay while you get things in order. Mexican turbos will keep your rock clean.
Start looking at your top off water. What is the TDS in your top off water?

 

[money88]

Yes phosphates can contribute to algae issues. You can try to lower gradually to help the problem. GFO will work as well.

What are all of your tank parms?

Also. I recommend you invest in a large clean up crew to help keep the algae at bay while you get things in order. Mexican turbos will keep your rock clean.
Start looking at your top off water. What is the TDS in your top off water?

How do you suggest running GFO? I don't have room for a reactor.

What other params are you interested In? Nitrite, nitrate, ammonia all zero. Standard PH with small changes because of reverse lighting schedule on refugium.

I use BRS 3 stage Rodi and I believe last time I filled up it was 0 TDS

I do currently have any emerald crab and it helps somewhat because you can see where he ate the previous night.

Only other thing is over the tanks lifespan I've lost a small handful of snails. Which would give a small nutrient bloom each time one perished.

 

[mcarroll]

How do you suggest running GFO? I don't have room for a reactor.

What other params are you interested In? Nitrite, nitrate, ammonia all zero.

I would consider GFO but be VERY careful not to drive PO4 lower than around 0.03 ppm.

 

[Clownfishy]

How do you suggest running GFO? I don't have room for a reactor.

You can put it into sump sock or I even poor it onto the floor of there aquarium/sump in a low flow area and then siphon it out after a couple of weeks. I have had success leaving it in a sock where a power head pushes it around.

 

[Palyzoa]

I would add more hermits and 1 or 2 turbos, Keep up on manually scrubbing with a toothbrush and water changes, feed lightly, and then see where you're at in a few weeks. If you're still having problems then you could try some GFO but like above said be careful not to strip the water of PO4 to quickly.

 

[Chef Tommy]

You honestly are explaining my tank! Lol. I'm at 9 months and went through an odd cycle and now it seems to be over. For a few months the rocks were having the oddest stuff all over then cyano came along and finally hair algae. I'm guessing my fuge finally took over or a long cycle finally ended but now everything is running great. Try pulling the algae out because if you are scrubbing it off it is just going to find another home.

 

[mcarroll]

Sorry for the brevity had to run on that last post..

Algae isn't caused by nutrients – that's just one part of the puzzle so to speak.

So you can probably lower PO4 safely a little bit as we're saying (not too low!) but don't focus too much on that.....because too-low is a whole other problem and because you can't solve a puzzle with one piece.

For another thing, it's a normal phase for a tank that's about as old as yours – so definitely don't do anything in panic. Remember there's nothing wrong with ugly.

Only other thing is over the tanks lifespan I've lost a small handful of snails. Which would give a small nutrient bloom each time one perished.

How is your CUC now? Is it just the emerald crab? Did you figure out what was going on with the deaths?

How long are your lights on during the day?

 

[Palyzoa]

You could also consider running your refugium light longer to help compete with the hair algae. Some people even run them 24/7. You can search for a few threads on the topic in the forums.

 

[money88]

I would consider GFO but be VERY careful not to drive PO4 lower than around 0.03 ppm.

Thanks I will be sure to monitor it if I need to run GFO

You can put it into sump sock or I even poor it onto the floor of there aquarium/sump in a low flow area and then siphon it out after a couple of weeks. I have had success leaving it in a sock where a power head pushes it around.

That is the route I took before, I first bagged it then I threw it in my sock. Right now I actually am not running socks because they weren't in an easy to access area so I didn't seem to replace them frequently enough. I have just ordered some more with drawstrings instead of a plastic ring which should allow me to more easily change them.

I would add more hermits and 1 or 2 turbos, Keep up on manually scrubbing with a toothbrush and water changes, feed lightly, and then see where you're at in a few weeks. If you're still having problems then you could try some GFO but like above said be careful not to strip the water of PO4 to quickly.

I have been trying to avoid adding hermits if at all possible, currently have some Astraea snails, a few Cerith snails, and I think a few Trochus. Don't most turbos get large? So would I be better off adding more Trochus snails instead?

You honestly are explaining my tank! Lol. I'm at 9 months and went through an odd cycle and now it seems to be over. For a few months the rocks were having the oddest stuff all over then cyano came along and finally hair algae. I'm guessing my fuge finally took over or a long cycle finally ended but now everything is running great. Try pulling the algae out because if you are scrubbing it off it is just going to find another home.

Haha, ya I never had the Cyano (knock on wood) but this has just been slow and steady nothing crazy. Also I usually do a water change when I scrub to suck up any of the pieces coming off the rock

 

[Palyzoa]

I have been trying to avoid adding hermits if at all possible, currently have some Astraea snails, a few Cerith snails, and I think a few Trochus. Don't most turbos get large? So would I be better off adding more Trochus snails instead?

Trochus snails are great at eating an assortment of algaes, However they only passively graze on Hair algae in comparison to the Turbo Snail.

 

[money88]

Sorry for the brevity had to run on that last post..

Algae isn't caused by nutrients – that's just one part of the puzzle so to speak.

So you can probably lower PO4 safely a little bit as we're saying (not too low!) but don't focus too much on that.....because too-low is a whole other problem and because you can't solve a puzzle with one piece.

For another thing, it's a normal phase for a tank that's about as old as yours – so definitely don't do anything in panic. Remember there's nothing wrong with ugly.



How is your CUC now? Is it just the emerald crab? Did you figure out what was going on with the deaths?

How long are your lights on during the day?

Yea I am not too worried about the hair algae and haven't been panicing because I know algae is nature and part of the process. Also its only GHA at this point so it is a pain but it hasn't become unmanable choking out corals for light or anything.

I have always fed with a pipette making sure that most of the food is consumed when feeding as well.

My CUC consists of some ceriths, a few trochus, Astraea, emerald crab, skunk cleaner, nassarius (only seem to have 1 of these, as they most frequently are the ones to die). I also didn't want to overload my CUC and have a bunch of die off but maybe I should scale it up a tad more. But I keep seeing some deaths so I am hesitant at adding more to die and just increase nutrients from their deaths.

My lights start their cycle at 9 or 10am and go till about 11 till they are fully off. But slowly ramping up in 10% increments only going to about 80 at peak time. The edge times only running blues as it ramps up and down.

You could also consider running your refugium light longer to help compete with the hair algae. Some people even run them 24/7. You can search for a few threads on the topic in the forums.

I was running my refuge light 12-14 hours and I recently lowered it to 10 and now to 8-9 because the chaeto wasn't growing and was showing signs of to much light without enough nutrients

 

[mtraylor]

How do you suggest running GFO? I don't have room for a reactor.

What other params are you interested In? Nitrite, nitrate, ammonia all zero. Standard PH with small changes because of reverse lighting schedule on refugium.

I use BRS 3 stage Rodi and I believe last time I filled up it was 0 TDS

I do currently have any emerald crab and it helps somewhat because you can see where he ate the previous night.

Only other thing is over the tanks lifespan I've lost a small handful of snails. Which would give a small nutrient bloom each time one perished.

I was mainly interested in the nitrates. I would start by looking at your RODI TDS reading. May be time to start changing some filters. One emerald crab is not going to do it.
I would recommend about 15 turbos, 15 astrea snails or whatever you like to start with. Allot of people simply over look a good cleanup crew. To have a real stable eco system, its one of the most important to have unless you want to do that maintenance your self.
GFO needs to tumble or it will turn into a brick.

 

[money88]

I was mainly interested in the nitrates. I would start by looking at your RODI TDS reading. May be time to start changing some filters. One emerald crab is not going to do it.
I would recommend about 15 turbos, 15 astrea snails or whatever you like to start with. Allot of people simply over look a good cleanup crew. To have a real stable eco system, its one of the most important to have unless you want to do that maintenance your self.
GFO needs to tumble or it will turn into a brick.

Yea I definitely will beef up the CUC, the TDS meter still reading zero at this point so filters are good they are only 3-4 months old since I last replaced. And the nitrates like I said tested with red sea and api ;P and both reading zero. I am convinced the chaeto is eating the nitrates up faster than they are coming out. That and the other nuisance algae in the sump I am working on getting rid of. (its like a green slime)

 

[money88]

So I went out and got 4 Mexican Turbos they seem to be all over the place. I tested the tank again and the params were:
Temperature: 78.60
Salinity: 1.023
Phosphate: 0
pH: 8.10
Nitrite: 0
Magnesium: 1360.00
Calcium: 410.00
Ammonia: 0
Alkalinity: 7.8

 

[mcarroll]

My lights start their cycle at 9 or 10am and go till about 11 till they are fully off. But slowly ramping up in 10% increments only going to about 80 at peak time. The edge times only running blues as it ramps up and down.

Sounds like you have room to come down a little – either in length or maybe intensity too. Do you know how much light you have now in terms of lux or PAR?

I was running my refuge light 12-14 hours and I recently lowered it to 10 and now to 8-9 because the chaeto wasn't growing and was showing signs of to much light without enough nutrients

You might have to consider feeding the chaeto so it can compete harder against the other algae. (This'll help your corals too....they do not like nutrients at zero....zero P can eventually kill them.)

More on this toward the bottom...

GFO needs to tumble or it will turn into a brick.

GFO that tumbles needs to be a special type or it powders.

the nitrates like I said tested with red sea and api ;P and both reading zero.

Consistent.

So I went out and got 4 Mexican Turbos they seem to be all over the place.

Might wanna add four more! See how things look in a few days.

Phosphate: 0
Nitrite: 0

I think I'd consider dosing some N and P directly to your chaeto in the refugium and then jacking up the light on it at least back to where it was.

Whatever algae growing in the display is either thriving off of NH4 (ammonium) or maybe it has another N source. So you apparently can't use nitrogen against it if chaeto is your tool since chaeto will apparently "run out" first.

So dose N as well as P. PO4 ≥ 0.03 and NO3 ≥ 5ppm would be great....and test/dose daily until you have a feel for consumption. For the time being try to keep those levels consistent.

Get your chaeto growing again in order to try and drive another nutrient (or nutrients) down to a level that will stop the growth of the algae in the display.

Honestly, I'd start with shortening your day by two or four hours and just see what effect that has. It may slow down the algae enough that your snails can stay on top of cleared areas...or maybe even catch up without as much help from you. (Keep up with the help though!)

The dosing plan can always be in your pocket if needed.

 

[money88]

Ironically I posted a few days ago about my chaeto not growing I am thinking its low nutrients more than anything else like you mentioned. What do you dose N and P with?

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chaeto-growth-and-lights.386832/#post-4694340

 

[mtraylor]

GFO that tumbles needs to be a special type or it powders.

;Hilarious

 

[money88]

Well based on my latest test results I think I can skip the GFO for now and I most likely dont even need to be running the small amount of carbon I've been running since I started this post

 

[mcarroll]

Ironically I posted a few days ago about my chaeto not growing I am thinking its low nutrients more than anything else like you mentioned. What do you dose N and P with?

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chaeto-growth-and-lights.386832/#post-4694340

Seachem, Brightwell, et al make products that will work...DIY is good too if you're fluent in it. The commercial products are economical in the quantities you'll be using.

I'd still consider shortening the day as well....doesn't have to be permanent, but it could make a significant difference.