Hanna Phosphate Checker with Copper Power

[Fastpitch]

Can I expect that the Hanna Phosphate checker will provide accurate results while dosing Copper Power?

 

[Tonycass12]

Can I expect that the Hanna Phosphate checker will provide accurate results while dosing Copper Power?

Whats the point of testing phosphates while your running copper?

 

[LeftyReefer]

If you are running copper, then you only have fish in the tank, correct?
phosphate level doesn't matter for fish, so don't worry about it.

 

[Fastpitch]

Long story but....I run a FOWLR. I also quarantine all my fish. But Ich snuck past me into the display. This happened right in the middle of transitioning from a refugium to carbon dosing. Carbon dosing is driving my phosphates to 0 while nitrates are at 100, so I am dosing neophos. That requires constant phosphate testing until I can get it stabilized.

The net of it is I need to know if I can rely on my hanna phos checker while running copper power.

 

[Fastpitch]

One more note to add. I tested phos this am and got a reading of .12 But I am not seeing any diatoms on the glass. Normally at this level of phosphate I expect to see the glass pretty messed up. But it is crystal clear. So I am questioning whether my Phos checker is reading high.

 

[Tonycass12]

I would message hanna directly. @Hanna Instruments

 

[threebuoys]

One more note to add. I tested phos this am and got a reading of .12 But I am not seeing any diatoms on the glass. Normally at this level of phosphate I expect to see the glass pretty messed up. But it is crystal clear. So I am questioning whether my Phos checker is reading high.

I have the same question about whether this testing is needed in a FOWLER. I certainly wouldn't think the level you have is problem and not sure there is a big advantage to chasing a lower number, or a higher number if the reading is 0 unless you believe it is contributing to some uglies, e.g. dinos.

 

[Fastpitch]

I have the same question about whether this testing is needed in a FOWLER. I certainly wouldn't think the level you have is problem and not sure there is a big advantage to chasing a lower number, or a higher number if the reading is 0 unless you believe it is contributing to some uglies, e.g. dinos.

Carbon dosing requires phosphate > 0 to be effective. So I am dosing neophos. But I dont want .12 either. There needs to be a balance. I am trying to get to a stable number, so I need testing.

 

[taricha]

A couple of points.
Interference is possible. Hach documentation [pdf] on the ascorbic acid PO4 method (same chemistry as hanna, but Hach does thorough documentation) says interference at 10ppm copper and greater.

But, I don't know what the expected therapeutic concentration is for copper power. I was thinking it was in the single digits ppm Cu, so maybe not an issue.

and also...

One more note to add. I tested phos this am and got a reading of .12 But I am not seeing any diatoms on the glass. Normally at this level of phosphate I expect to see the glass pretty messed up.

Copper can also be an algae killer (but I don't know how much is needed to kill algae like diatoms), so not seeing diatoms may not be reflective of the nutrient levels.

 

[Fastpitch]

I would message hanna directly. @Hanna Instruments

For any interested. I reached out to Hanna. They indicated that they have not received any feedback from reefers that would indicate phosphate checker accuracy issues while dosing copper. Not exactly the positive confirmation that I was looking for but I think it is the best I am going to get.

 

[Fastpitch]

A couple of points.
Interference is possible. Hach documentation [pdf] on the ascorbic acid PO4 method (same chemistry as hanna, but Hach does thorough documentation) says interference at 10ppm copper and greater.

But, I don't know what the expected therapeutic concentration is for copper power. I was thinking it was in the single digits ppm Cu, so maybe not an issue.

and also...

Copper can also be an algae killer (but I don't know how much is needed to kill algae like diatoms), so not seeing diatoms may not be reflective of the nutrient levels.

Thanks! Concentration for copper power is 2.5 ppm. How does that translate to 10 mg/liter? No idea.

 

[Fastpitch]

Thanks! Concentration for copper power is 2.5 ppm. How does that translate to 10 mg/liter? No idea.

I googled the conversion 2ppm = 2 mg/l. So looks like the answer is Cu treatment for ich should not impact test results for the Hanna Phos HI713 checker.

Thanks all!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I googled the conversion 2ppm = 2 mg/l. So looks like the answer is Cu treatment for ich should not impact test results for the Hanna Phos HI713 checker.

Thanks all!

Id use the data from Hach as a useful tool, but not necessarily definitive for the version of the method that Hanna uses.

That said, I agree is is more likely ok than not ok.

 

[Fastpitch]

Id use the data from Hach as a useful tool, but not necessarily definitive for the version of the method that Hanna uses.

That said, I agree is is more likely ok than not ok.

Thanks. So I guess that means proceed with caution. Still not sure why my glass is clear when my checker is reading .14.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks. So I guess that means proceed with caution. Still not sure why my glass is clear when my checker is reading .14.

Many needed elements can limit algae.

 

[Fastpitch]

Thanks. So I guess that means proceed with caution. Still not sure why my glass is clear when my checker is reading .14.

Epilogue - So my phosphates continue to rise as I ramp up Cu. So I decided to perform an unscientific home experiment.

Control = 1.025 RODI Water, Result 0 PO4.
Experiment = 1.025 RODI Water with 2.35 Cu (Copper Power), Result .14 PO4.

For the small fraction of FOWLRs out there who find themselves treating with Cu in the DT, DO NOT expect your Hanna PO4 checker to provide accurate results.