Having some issues

sndstream · Jun 12, 2012

Hi,

I read a lot online but am now having some trouble and thought Id see what the online world could maybe do for me

Heres my setup:
Marinelands 93g cube
Lights: Ecotech Radion x 2
Skimmer Aquac EV-120
DIY 30g refugium
Reef Octopus Calcium Reactor using ARM
Bulkreef supply GFO/ROX reactors
Pumps: Mag 7 skimmer, 9.5 return, Mag 5 for gfo/carbon reactors, powerhead for skimmer
Circ: Ecotech Radion mp40ew
ATO using Kalkwasser
~85 lbs live rock
Hanna checkers, salifert and some api kits for routine checks
3" sand bed
Mixed reef
Pair of clowns, pair of banded pipefish, Ghost Goby, Black Sailfin Blenny, Kole Eye Tang, trio of Firefish
Random amounts of chestnut, mexican snails, nerites and nassarius', banded troches, spiny star astreas, blue legged hermits, and 1 tuxedo urchin
1 emerald crab it dt, 1 relegated to the refugium as well as a few peps that didn't play by my rules
1 Sea Hare that has actually lived 1.5years since day 1 although I have to pretty much hand feed him these days
Several zoa and paly colonies as well as star polyps [tubs blue, jokers, keds red, nuclear greens, ppes, safe crackers, pinks]
Maybe 30 Florida Ricordeas
Jupiter and Mojito acans
Red monte cap, jedi mind trick, purple with yellow rim monti
Meteor shower and Purple with blue dimple chalices
A few large humulus', some digatlia, and Marshal Islands spas,
electric birdsnest
Whole bunch of other stuff as I can't remember off the top of my head

Here's todays chemistry which is almost daily stable

ph - 8.1
alk 9
ca 440
nitrate 0
phos 0
mg 1350
trite 0
salinity 1.024
temp 79
AMMONIA 0.25

My setup had been going strong until I had a bryopsis breakout. I tried everything until I felt compelled to go the route of Kent TechM. It worked but my mg had gotten too high in excess of 1900-2000 in which I had some sps bleaching as well as zoa's closing up. From there, I started to chip away with 30% h20 changes (I have a bulk reef supply ro unit) and was only making small dents in correction. My last water change which was 1 week later then the previous 30% was a huge 70% change. This is where my real problems presented. I did bring my mg down ultimately to 1500. The ro water water matched tank specs with maybe a 1 degree change in temp (ph,alk,ca, salinity all the same). However, despite this I had a plate coral go south by the next morning and had gellified and started dying. I instantly removed it but some tissues scattered. I removed as much of this material as I could and kept an eye on chemistry. Now my sps are starting to take a hit with base bleaching on just 1 colony to which I reactively fragged. Things all stayed the same except ammonia which previously has been 0 but is now hitting .25 on api kit. OMG! So, I did a fish count...all there unstressed as well as look for obvious dead things to which I found nothing. I waited maybe a day and then did a 25% h20 change to which my ammonia went back to 0. I let the tank sit for a week and I just kept an eye on things and everything looked ok (except the colony I fragged wasn't pulling through) and I thought I skirted a huge problem. Now that all my numbers looked okay I took a breath, unboxed my second radion and got it situated. I went through the setup software, grouped them and globally reduced my lights to a 50% intensity since now I had 2 lights (previously was 70% for just 1 light). Everything looked good until I woke up. 4 hours into the light schedule Im seeing all top sps bleaching so I turned everything down and looked into my settings. The new light decided it wasn't in the group and blasted the tank with 100% plus the 40% from the other light. You gotta be kidding me....So I set it up again, triple checked it and yes they are running the way they're supposed to be. However, the aftermath has been horrible. I have bottom zoas looking almost translucent in color, I have sps that are rtn on me. Suffice to say nothing is looking good. Now to add insult to injury I have a brown algae breakout on the sand bed. My trades and phos are 0 checked with a combo of api, salifert, and hanna checkers so there is some redundancy...all 0. I have religiously fed the tank every 3 days with a combo of frozen mysis, reef frenzy, and live copes and Im not dosing vodka or sugar. So here I am trying to sort out what is going on and figured Id come here for some advice. My thoughts:

1. Never do that big of h20 change again
2. Never walk away from new equipment for a second until Im positive it's running ok.
3. Never TechM my problems as it just didn't work for me despite working for others

So what do you guys think? Am I just going to have to wait this out or is there something else I'm missing? I like to think Im informed but looking back Ive made some poor choices so its time to take my problems to the world lol........

sndstream · Jun 12, 2012

I can't find the edit but in where I said my daily chemistry is stable I meant that it is with the exception of this ammonia issue.

robert · Jun 13, 2012

Sorry to hear about you troubles. After reading this, I googled the TechM solution for bryopsis. I'm sure you've already done this so I'm probably telling you something you already know, other have reported the bleaching and STN as well. There's even some speculation that something other than Mag in the TechM is responsible for the bryopsis "cure" as Mag from sources other than Kent and Brightwell don't seem as effective.

I just guessing, but I could imagine that something you added was toxic to the primary autotrophic nitrifying bacteria, so your tank is no longer processing ammonia properly. If I were in your shoes, I might try to procure some cycled rock from and established tank somewhere and put as much as I could into my sump. I would next blunt the ammonia with prime and cut feeding to an absolute minimum. Watch the ph - keep it on the low side as any increase will will tend to increase ammonia. I would keep the lights down - maybe even drop the temp a degree or two. Change out the filter sock and skim a little wetter than normal. Watch your salinity - as skimming wet will drop it and drops in salinity will prompt the corals to purge internal "organics (not the proper term here)" to maintain hydrostatic balance. I would make no sudden changes to chemistry (alk or calcium) Also, I'd take the gfo/rox off line and ditch the media. I would add carbon and or GFO by the tablespoon directly to the (new) filter sock only as needed until you get the ammonia under control - and only then would I bring the BRS reactors back. Treat it like a new cycle.

You probably already know, but smearing good tissue above the RTN will cut off it's advance. Go completely around the coral with the glue.

That's about it for me. I don't know if anything I suggested would help, just thinking out loud really. It will recover -

sndstream · Jun 13, 2012

robert said:
Sorry to hear about you troubles. After reading this, I googled the TechM solution for bryopsis. I'm sure you've already done this so I'm probably telling you something you already know, other have reported the bleaching and STN as well. There's even some speculation that something other than Mag in the TechM is responsible for the bryopsis "cure" as Mag from sources other than Kent and Brightwell don't seem as effective.

I just guessing, but I could imagine that something you added was toxic to the primary autotrophic nitrifying bacteria, so your tank is no longer processing ammonia properly. If I were in your shoes, I might try to procure some cycled rock from and established tank somewhere and put as much as I could into my sump. I would next blunt the ammonia with prime and cut feeding to an absolute minimum. Watch the ph - keep it on the low side as any increase will will tend to increase ammonia. I would keep the lights down - maybe even drop the temp a degree or two. Change out the filter sock and skim a little wetter than normal. Watch your salinity - as skimming wet will drop it and drops in salinity will prompt the corals to purge internal "organics (not the proper term here)" to maintain hydrostatic balance. I would make no sudden changes to chemistry (alk or calcium) Also, I'd take the gfo/rox off line and ditch the media. I would add carbon and or GFO by the tablespoon directly to the (new) filter sock only as needed until you get the ammonia under control - and only then would I bring the BRS reactors back. Treat it like a new cycle.

You probably already know, but smearing good tissue above the RTN will cut off it's advance. Go completely around the coral with the glue.

That's about it for me. I don't know if anything I suggested would help, just thinking out loud really. It will recover -

Hey thanks for the advice. I've pulled my reactors offline, switched out to a new filter sock, cut back my light cycle by 2 hours, am now skimming more wet (Im so glad my last purchase was a top off system), and have syphoned off the bloom on the sand bed. But you hit the nail on the head. The tank is acting like it's having an amped up mini cycle or a full blown recycle (I hope I don't have to go through the ammon/trite/trate process

). I have a feeling the large h20 change may have stripped too much of the beneficial bacteria only compounding things. It gets tough trying to isolate the cause as I made a few noob blunders which I didn't see coming as Ive had very good luck and try not to freak out when issues arise......

Todays numbers
ph 8.2
alk 8.1 (its typically been 9-9.5) Ive been dosing am-quel for reef which I think is partly responsible for the lower alk and at this point don't plan to use again provided my ammonia goes no higher or at least is my tentative plan. Sometimes I think am-quel is a gimmick but who knows.
t = 79f
ca 420
salinity 1.024
phos 0
trate 0
mg 1400
ammonia still .25

zoas/palys opening but still have a translucent faded appearance. My acans are fine. My monte's, stylophora and hyndophora are ok but faded. My humulus and tabling acros are a bit less faded and now have polyp extension. My fragged out pieces are all total bleach so Im probably going to pull them in the am. Fish seem to be just fine and oblivious to whats going on as well as my bubble coral. My purple and blue spotted chalice is bleaching out which is a bummer but my meteor shower seems unaffected. I really think it boils down to some toxin I can't test for (negative for copper just for good measure). That combined with a reactive huge h20 change just added to the problems. Well see how the next week goes.

tx again