Having trouble cultivating copepods

madducks42 · Jan 1, 2018

Our tank has been up and running for almost a year and we’d like to add a mandarin in early 2018. It’s a 90 gallon tank with lots of live rock and currently only two clownfish and a watchman goby. I’m sure we’ll add more fish in the future but we’ll avoid fish that will compete with the mandarin for food. Planning on getting a captive bred mandarin and I know a lot of the places that sell them state they’ll eat frozen food like bloodworms. But just in case I’ve been trying to bump the copepod population in the tank and also start a copepods culture in a separate spare 5 gallon tank. It’s not going well from what I can tell...

About 2 months ago I ordered a bunch of copepods from Algae Barn. I started out with their mix pack of three different types of copepods and put one bag directly into the display tank and the other bag into the tank downstairs. I dose the display tank daily with Algae Barn’s Ocean Magik, just their recommended dosage. And I’ve been using phytopaste that I got from Brine Shrimp Direct in the tank downstairs. I keep the water in the tank downstairs green, not sure if I’m doing too much or not enough. Didn’t see any growth in copepods population in the first month in either tank, did another copepods order and only got tisbe pods this time. Put a bag in the DT and a bag in the tank downstairs after doing a water change. It’s been a month and still no increase in copepods in either tank although the corals in the display tank seem to really love their daily dose of phytoplankton because they look great and have been growing like crazy, lol.

So what am I doing wrong? From everything I’ve read online this is supposed to be pretty simple. The tank downstairs is kept at room temperature (usually low 70’s for that room), salinity is 1.025, always has a slight green tint to the water. If I look closely I can see a few specks darting around in the water so there are definitely some in there but I’m doubting it’s enough to sustain a mandarin.

revhtree · Jan 1, 2018

Maybe @Reef Nutrition can help a little!

Reef Nutrition · Jan 2, 2018

madducks42 said:
Our tank has been up and running for almost a year and we’d like to add a mandarin in early 2018. It’s a 90 gallon tank with lots of live rock and currently only two clownfish and a watchman goby. I’m sure we’ll add more fish in the future but we’ll avoid fish that will compete with the mandarin for food. Planning on getting a captive bred mandarin and I know a lot of the places that sell them state they’ll eat frozen food like bloodworms. But just in case I’ve been trying to bump the copepod population in the tank and also start a copepods culture in a separate spare 5 gallon tank. It’s not going well from what I can tell...

About 2 months ago I ordered a bunch of copepods from Algae Barn. I started out with their mix pack of three different types of copepods and put one bag directly into the display tank and the other bag into the tank downstairs. I dose the display tank daily with Algae Barn’s Ocean Magik, just their recommended dosage. And I’ve been using phytopaste that I got from Brine Shrimp Direct in the tank downstairs. I keep the water in the tank downstairs green, not sure if I’m doing too much or not enough. Didn’t see any growth in copepods population in the first month in either tank, did another copepods order and only got tisbe pods this time. Put a bag in the DT and a bag in the tank downstairs after doing a water change. It’s been a month and still no increase in copepods in either tank although the corals in the display tank seem to really love their daily dose of phytoplankton because they look great and have been growing like crazy, lol.

So what am I doing wrong? From everything I’ve read online this is supposed to be pretty simple. The tank downstairs is kept at room temperature (usually low 70’s for that room), salinity is 1.025, always has a slight green tint to the water. If I look closely I can see a few specks darting around in the water so there are definitely some in there but I’m doubting it’s enough to sustain a mandarin.

What kind of rock is that in the culture tank? Is it live rock from your tank? I'm asking because live rock contains benthic crustaceans that feed on each other and copepods. Also, have you considered trying a different copepod? Tigroipus californicus is a good one. It's also larger than Tisbe, so a little easier to find.

Susan Edwards · Jan 2, 2018

I keep mine in a gallon jar. Have harvested once now and have lots more. Maybe you need 2 airlines, one on each side, each producing slow bubbles? I also keep my temp in the area low to mid 70's. 72-76 or 78 with a light during day and a space heater at night. I don't add food each day, only when the green lightens or maybe every other to 2 days I'll add a small amt. I also clean the bottles out once a month by removing pods with a fine screen to a bowl of saltwater while changing out the gallon jars. The jars have spigots to make that part easy. What I have trouble with is the phytoplankton crashing.

Need to add foam to the window for the cold coming in. Picture shows one copepod jar. I have 2 now.

rkpetersen · Jan 2, 2018

My current dt is about 8 months old. Fairly high energy mixed reef with a thin sand substrate. I've added bag after bag of pods and have little to show for it. Multiple different species of copepods (tisbe, apocyclops, tigriopus) from different companies, and also several batches of the larger amphipods from Aquarium Depot. Added during the day, or at night, to the small fuge in the sump, or to the dt in the water column or pipetted directly behind rocks, with the pumps and skimmer temporarily off, with the filter socks out, and so on. They just seem to disappear. I'll find an occasional live amphipod in a filter sock for a week or two after adding them, but other than that, nada. I guess some of my fish might hunt down and eat larger pods, but my tank also has many many great nooks and crannies where fish can't reach.

Not sure what the issue is. Reading about it hasn't really provided any solid answers. Perhaps my tank is too clean; the only visible algae I have is coralline. I did notice that one seller of pods specifically recommends buying only one batch from him, not more, stating that if your tank is 'ready', they will multiply quickly and easily, and if it isn't ready, adding a larger number of pods won't help. Now if I only knew what it takes to get to that point.

Susan Edwards · Jan 2, 2018

Have you tried looking at night with a strong flashlight. Remember they are very tiny. Have to just stare at different spots to see if something moves. I have some larger amphipods and they run from the light. Also, when I toss in some tiny pellet foods and they hit the rocks or sand, I'll see the amphipods carrying the pellets off into the rocks. There should be lots of really tiny ones that you can barely spot in or on the rocks. As I have 2 fish eating pods, I mostly see the larger ones. I don't think t hey eat those as much but they do breed. Last time I looked, I saw some small pods as well, esp. around the bases of corals. I use a long funnel, like for adding oil to a car (prob. around 15-18 inches) and pour the pods into the rocks at night iwth all pumps off, including skimmer for an hour or more.

Also, do you feed phytoplankton to your pods/tank? If your tank is too clean, maybe they need food. I get my pods from algae barn and the phyto. Am cultivating my own now. Don't give up. and it takes weeks to see effects from breeding

madducks42 · Jan 2, 2018

Reef Nutrition said:
What kind of rock is that in the culture tank? Is it live rock from your tank? I'm asking because live rock contains benthic crustaceans that feed on each other and copepods. Also, have you considered trying a different copepod? Tigroipus californicus is a good one. It's also larger than Tisbe, so a little easier to find.

The rock in the culture tank is marine pure, I bought it when I bought the copepods from Algae Barn. It's only ever been in the culture tank so it shouldn't have any other pests in it. The first batch of copepods I ordered had some tigger pods in it, they were large enough to see but even they seem to have died off. All the copepods I've added since then have just been Tisbe pods and I've tried them from two different sources. The main reason why've I've gone with Tisbe pods is because I thought that's what worked better for mandarins.

Flippers4pups · Jan 2, 2018

What is your source water? When I've started a culture of tisbe, I used much less phytoplankton than your culture. Just a tint of green. When it cleared I would add more phyto to just tint the water and so on ..... Worked well.

The other thing is the source of pods, their water SG. You should measure it and match what they were in before culturing them. Some suppliers of PODS keep their salinity lower than 1.025.

NS Mike D · Jan 2, 2018

following

madducks42 · Jan 2, 2018

Flippers4pups said:
What is your source water? When I've started a culture of tisbe, I used much less phytoplankton than your culture. Just a tint of green. When it cleared I would add more phyto to just tint the water and so on ..... Worked well.

The other thing is the source of pods, their water SG. You should measure it and match what they were in before culturing them. Some suppliers of PODS keep their salinity lower than 1.025.

I think I might be using too much phytoplankton. I’m going to cut back a bit and see if that makes a difference. I’ll probably also do another order of tisbe pods and I’ll check the salinity when I get them.

Flippers4pups · Jan 2, 2018

madducks42 said:
I think I might be using too much phytoplankton. I’m going to cut back a bit and see if that makes a difference. I’ll probably also do another order of tisbe pods and I’ll check the salinity when I get them.

I've always drip acclimated my incoming pod cultures for SG. After that, splitting can be done easily using the same SG as the first culture.

Make sure you only culture one species of copepod at a time. Never attempt to "mix" species in culture.

Susan Edwards · Jan 2, 2018

madducks42 said:
The rock in the culture tank is marine pure, I bought it when I bought the copepods from Algae Barn. It's only ever been in the culture tank so it shouldn't have any other pests in it. The first batch of copepods I ordered had some tigger pods in it, they were large enough to see but even they seem to have died off. All the copepods I've added since then have just been Tisbe pods and I've tried them from two different sources. The main reason why've I've gone with Tisbe pods is because I thought that's what worked better for mandarins.

I don't use any rock in my culture jar. Just water to approximate my DT and enough phyto to turn water green. And water to top off every few days--jars are covered. Maybe the marine pure is doing something. Try again in just a gallon jar. I shine a light down after removing air hose to see if I see life in the beginning. After a while, I can see them on the sides of the jar. When I see a ton on the side, I know it is time to split. Mandarins will eat any I believe which is why I used the algae barn 5600 mix I believe. 2 bags. One for the culture, one for the tank. So that is mixing types to whatever they supply.

Reef Nutrition · Jan 3, 2018

madducks42 said:
The rock in the culture tank is marine pure, I bought it when I bought the copepods from Algae Barn. It's only ever been in the culture tank so it shouldn't have any other pests in it. The first batch of copepods I ordered had some tigger pods in it, they were large enough to see but even they seem to have died off. All the copepods I've added since then have just been Tisbe pods and I've tried them from two different sources. The main reason why've I've gone with Tisbe pods is because I thought that's what worked better for mandarins.

Mandarins will eat many different crustaceans. They have no problem consuming amphipods, isopods and many copepod species such as Tigger-Pods. I quarantined a mandarin for a month and watched it eat about 2,000 Tigger-Pods a day! I don't use any rock in my cultures: no substrate at all, in fact. You should try Tigriopus californicus (aka Tigger-Pods). I've been working with them for 10 years now and they are great.

Chad

rkpetersen · Jan 3, 2018

Susan Edwards said:
Have you tried looking at night with a strong flashlight. Remember they are very tiny. Have to just stare at different spots to see if something moves. I have some larger amphipods and they run from the light. Also, when I toss in some tiny pellet foods and they hit the rocks or sand, I'll see the amphipods carrying the pellets off into the rocks. There should be lots of really tiny ones that you can barely spot in or on the rocks. As I have 2 fish eating pods, I mostly see the larger ones. I don't think t hey eat those as much but they do breed. Last time I looked, I saw some small pods as well, esp. around the bases of corals. I use a long funnel, like for adding oil to a car (prob. around 15-18 inches) and pour the pods into the rocks at night iwth all pumps off, including skimmer for an hour or more.

Also, do you feed phytoplankton to your pods/tank? If your tank is too clean, maybe they need food. I get my pods from algae barn and the phyto. Am cultivating my own now. Don't give up. and it takes weeks to see effects from breeding

Thanks for the reply. I know there are pods in there, as I can find them here and there in detritus taken from the bottom when I look at it under a microscope. But they're not breeding in sizable numbers. I do feed some phyto, but I don't want to add a lot to the DT over concerns about water quality.

Here's a funny thing: I set up a small QT two weeks ago. I had a couple of sponge filters that had been sitting in my DT sump for several months, that I transferred over and hooked up to air, to jump start the QT cycle. The tank now has one fish in it and some PVC pipe, that's it, and yet this morning I find pods crawling all over the glass! So yeah, pods in my QT where I don't need them, and none visible in my DT where I've been trying hard to establish them. Still, they probably transferred over to the QT on those sponge filters, so I guess they're surviving in the DT (I haven't added any in a month), just not in large numbers. Perhaps I can't see them on the glass due to high flow.

Susan Edwards · Jan 3, 2018

phyto is actually supposed to be very beneficial to our tanks. Helps with algae, feeds filter feeders and our pods. I add 15 ml or so 2-3 times a week when I have it to spare.

The seachem stuff in a bottle is not the same as fresh live phyto so don't use it on a pod culture. I had it crash one of my pod cultures as it crashed the ph. I use that when I don't have fresh for the DT--half a capful only!

The fact that you had some in your sponges says you have them in the DT and a lot more than you think you have. You just can't see them. And they are more condensed in smaller areas. In a DT most are prob. deep in rock or sand. Use your flashlight at night, lights out in room, over the next week and just stare at the rock or sandbed. Also, at times the water column seems full of "stuff" at night and I bet those are more pods.Even feed the tank while doing this a bit. I dropped in some spectrum pellets, saw one hit the sandbed, then take off "running" as an amphipod snagged it and carried it into the rocks. I've also see the amphis steel food mysis from my sun corals.