Hawaii ban is official.

[ReeferWarrant]

@Zionas they do listen to science but only when it supports their theory.

 

[Kyl]

This hobby has NO ONE to blame but the people in it for this closure, and all the future ones that will come to pass, or the eventual import bans from third world collection points.

The hobby collectively treats livestock as disposable dollar signs, and until the majority of end points for sales (LFS / online LFS) take livestock health seriously, stopping the "shoveling them out the door before they die" behavior, nothing will change. It's either they are the ones that ultimately force the needed change in the collection supply chain, or the government will take the easier option and just shut things down. Hobbyists cannot be trusted to do this as there are countless examples of consistently rewarding doing the wrong thing, because it's cheaper.

This hobby has some of the most insidious, immoral behavior condoned on the back of a dollar, and the entire industry has done little to nothing, instead reveling in the success of it. I don't blame the activists for painting a giant target on it.

 

[Montiman]

This hobby has NO ONE to blame but the people in it for this closure, and all the future ones that will come to pass, or the eventual import bans from third world collection points.

The hobby collectively treats livestock as disposable dollar signs, and until the majority of end points for sales (LFS / online LFS) take livestock health seriously, stopping the "shoveling them out the door before they die" behavior, nothing will change. It's either they are the ones that ultimately force the needed change in the collection supply chain, or the government will take the easier option and just shut things down. Hobbyists cannot be trusted to do this as there are countless examples of consistently rewarding doing the wrong thing, because it's cheaper.

This hobby has some of the most insidious, immoral behavior condoned on the back of a dollar, and the entire industry has done little to nothing, instead reveling in the success of it. I don't blame the activists for painting a giant target on it.

IMO this is a separate issue from livestock collection. All food fish die. Once an animal is harvested it doesn't matter what happens to it from an ecological management perspective.

This is not to say it doesn't matter what happens to live stock morally or even legally only that collection laws should have nothing to do with how an animal is treated after collection. If there were laws enforcing livestock living standards I would not object.

Laws against collection are misplaced frustrations from confused or ill intending individuals.

 

[Zionas]

Agree.

 

[ScottB]

This hobby has NO ONE to blame but the people in it for this closure, and all the future ones that will come to pass, or the eventual import bans from third world collection points.

The hobby collectively treats livestock as disposable dollar signs, and until the majority of end points for sales (LFS / online LFS) take livestock health seriously, stopping the "shoveling them out the door before they die" behavior, nothing will change. It's either they are the ones that ultimately force the needed change in the collection supply chain, or the government will take the easier option and just shut things down. Hobbyists cannot be trusted to do this as there are countless examples of consistently rewarding doing the wrong thing, because it's cheaper.

This hobby has some of the most insidious, immoral behavior condoned on the back of a dollar, and the entire industry has done little to nothing, instead reveling in the success of it. I don't blame the activists for painting a giant target on it.

That is a fairly broad brush you are using there. While not perfect, there are a few (sadly, few) wholesalers that make a real effort to source sustainably. And there are many LFS that care about the animals. Two out of three near me.

Now I've only been in the hobby for 12 years, and in the industry for 4, so many others will have more direct knowledge than me. Just sharing that some businesses are on the right track with things like cyanide testing in addition to proper CITIES compliance.

If I can easily find it, I will share a link to the presentation done at MACNA Orlando about Hawaii fish collection. I am aware that there are lies, dang lies, and statistics but the data was compelling to the argument that under REGULATION, fish harvesting could be sustainably done in Hawaii.

Without REGULATION I do agree with you on the sourcing side. And there are too many wholesalers that compete on price alone.

 

[saltyhog]

Christmas Islands are still open and will offer many Hawaiian Fish. Truth be told Hawaii had one of the most well managed fisheries in the world. There was 0 reason to shut down collection other than crazy nuts. This is coming from someone who has an ecology degree.

While getting my degree professors presented me with Hawaii as an example of the most well managed and maintained fishery in the world.

The fundamental misunderstanding about coral reefs is that they are space limited. The greatest threats to reefs are ones that limit the amount of habitable space. In Hawaii this is primarily agricultural run off. Unfortunately the aquarium trade is a more appealing target than farmers.

Anyone who does not understand that limiting space is the greatest threat to reefs does not have a basic understanding of reef ecology. In a space limited ecosystem it is very easy to harvest animals because as soon as they are removed more space is available to the ecosystem and it gets filled quickly. Removing habitable space from a reef is like removing water from a desert.

Well said!

 

[Tamberav]

Despite everything being in the works, never thought this day would come. Until we get enough Captive Bred specimens, goodbye Yellow Tangs, Kole Tangs, Convict Tangs, Lavender Tangs, Achilles, and many others.

I wonder what would be the future of Tangs for Zebrasoma and other fish.

What would be good alternatives for most people in the now indefinite absence of the Yellow Tang?

I am pretty sure yellow tangs will still be available as there are some other areas for them. Price will go up though and they certainly won't be as available.

Yellow Tangs are already expensive so you can get a captive one at a pretty close price. $95 on NY aquatic for wild or $119 for captive on LA. Not that much difference.

Yellow Tangs are pretty mean and I never found them to be needed for algae. I would consider them completely optional for algae.

I am a bit sad as I planned on a potters wrasse.

I did put a Kole Tang on hold today after hearing the news yesterday. I figure it will turn into a 'rare' fish so I might as well get one to be a cool kid

 

[Grossman90]

Christmas Islands are still open and will offer many Hawaiian Fish. Truth be told Hawaii had one of the most well managed fisheries in the world. There was 0 reason to shut down collection other than crazy nuts. This is coming from someone who has an ecology degree.

While getting my degree professors presented me with Hawaii as an example of the most well managed and maintained fishery in the world.

The fundamental misunderstanding about coral reefs is that they are space limited. The greatest threats to reefs are ones that limit the amount of habitable space. In Hawaii this is primarily agricultural run off. Unfortunately the aquarium trade is a more appealing target than farmers.

Anyone who does not understand that limiting space is the greatest threat to reefs does not have a basic understanding of reef ecology. In a space limited ecosystem it is very easy to harvest animals because as soon as they are removed more space is available to the ecosystem and it gets filled quickly. Removing habitable space from a reef is like removing water from a desert.

But does christmas islands have potters leopard wrasse? Im sad. My favorite wrasse i might never see again.

 

[ThePurple12]

Yellow Tangs are already expensive so you can get a captive one at a pretty close price. $95 on NY aquatic for wild or $119 for captive on LA. Not that much difference.

You can blame COVID for that. Ever since it started prices have been high.

 

[4FordFamily]

Sad

Incidentally, I snagged a flame wrasse, convict tang, and a moorish idol today.

Hawaii has some of the best and healthiest fish. Sigh.

 

[Christopher Marshall]

here's the actual announcement: https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/dar/announc...ified-that-all-aquarium-collection-is-banned/

 

[Tamberav]

No potters wrasse, red-tail tamarin wrasse or flame wrasses for next build makes me a sad panda. Hopefully these fish will return eventually to us and the sea.

 

[40g Nano]

Can I see a link for the ban?
Thanks

 

[40g Nano]

Can I see a link for the ban?
Thanks

Right as I posted, there was an answer

 

[Christopher Marshall]

Commercial fishers notified that all aquarium collection is banned

On January 12, 2021 Circuit Court Judge Jeffrey Crabtree ruled that all commercial aquarium fishing is completely banned in the State of Hawaiʻi, unless and until the aquarium fishing industry […]

dlnr.hawaii.gov

 

[DaddyFish]

The Yellow Tang was the reason I made the leap from fw to sw. Sad.

I read the link on the announcement, and while I admittedly know very little about the commercial license restrictions, I do seem to read that it's not banned, but requiring all fish collections to have permitted operations???

And while I try very hard to stay off any political or ethical discussions on this forum, those comments above about how this hobby treats livestock blah blah blah... If you truly feel that way, then why do YOU support this hobby by being a part of it? I often want to ask the question on here... If this is such an unethical and corrupt hobby, why participate? Crush your tank, recycle the glass and plastic in individual containers, take your food to the end of a pier and feed the poor fishes. But don't preach from the mudpit!

 

[BantyRooster97]

This hobby has NO ONE to blame but the people in it for this closure, and all the future ones that will come to pass, or the eventual import bans from third world collection points.

The hobby collectively treats livestock as disposable dollar signs, and until the majority of end points for sales (LFS / online LFS) take livestock health seriously, stopping the "shoveling them out the door before they die" behavior, nothing will change. It's either they are the ones that ultimately force the needed change in the collection supply chain, or the government will take the easier option and just shut things down. Hobbyists cannot be trusted to do this as there are countless examples of consistently rewarding doing the wrong thing, because it's cheaper.

This hobby has some of the most insidious, immoral behavior condoned on the back of a dollar, and the entire industry has done little to nothing, instead reveling in the success of it. I don't blame the activists for painting a giant target on it.

Sounds like you are in the wrong hobby if this is how you feel. I try to keep all my fish happy & healthy & treat them as pets.... not all do... but broad stroke like this is why bans happen.

 

[boboyo]

Agreed, I guess if you want it enough youll pay the costs... I chose the wrong time to get into this hobby haha

As a new reefer, I was devastated I would be able to have a yellow tang

Luckily, I found one for 60$ on a local reefer fb group!! The tang is in perfect health and hes 3 years old! The lady is getting rid of her tank and has no idea about the yellow tang shortage

 

[Huskymaniac]

I've been diving in Hawaii on about 20 different occasions. Some of those reefs are in real bad condition.

 

[IamChrismWard]

I was in 3 pet shops today and 2 yesterday Both that I was in yesterday and one today had captive breed yellow tangs. they were really tiny maybe 3/4 inch and almost see through, just barely yellow for $80. If I didn't already have a yellow Tang in everyone of my tanks I definitely would've picked one up.