Hawaii ban is official.

[shred5]

Interesting. Why even bother with yellow tangs. They are captive bred. Would much rather see flame wrasses or achilles tangs on the list. Kind of disappointing. They are better off staying closed.

Because the market is far greater for yellow tangs than can possibly be bred by Biota.

I think people think because we can so readily breed clownfish that other saltwater fish are the same and there not. There really is only a handful that are. Biota already said that yellow tangs only breed so many times a year and is seasonal. They do not lay eggs like clownfish or continually.
These places that breed some of these captive bred fish are not even close to be the size they would need to be to supply the hobby. Lots of saltwater fish have breeding requirements that is impossible or nearly impossible to do in a enclosed environment. These are not freshwater fish and they have a larvae stage. Allot also do not lay eggs on a medium like freshwater fish. Saltwater fish are far more challenging. It is far harder to raise the food for saltwater fish larvae let alone in quantity than it is to breed freshwater fish.

 

[Huskymaniac]

Because the market is far greater for yellow tangs than can possibly be bred by Biota.

I think people think because we can so readily breed clownfish that other saltwater fish are the same and there not. There really is only a handful that are. Biota already said that yellow tangs only breed so many times a year and is seasonal. They do not lay eggs like clownfish or continually.
These places that breed some of these captive bred fish are not even close to be the size they would need to be to supply the hobby. Lots of saltwater fish have breeding requirements that is impossible or nearly impossible to do in a enclosed environment. These are not freshwater fish and they have a larvae stage. Allot also do not lay eggs on a medium like freshwater fish. Saltwater fish are far more challenging. It is far harder to raise the food for saltwater fish larvae let alone in quantity than it is to breed freshwater fish.

The yellow tang market is high because they are a cheap fish. Just wait u til those wild caught ones are going for $399.

 

[Coralcitos]

The saddest part is that both yellow tang that I purchased while back before the ban came sick with ich from the local reef store and didn’t survived the treatment.

maybe we Can all chip in and buy an island for breeding species. If I was Bezo’s ex-wife totally would do that

 

[shred5]

The yellow tang market is high because they are a cheap fish. Just wait u til those wild caught ones are going for $399.

Partly but the point still stands this hobby can not survive without wild fish yet not even close not unless people want just clownfish and a few other fish. The price of these other fish only a few very wealthy people would be able to afford.
Plus who would invest in a declining hobby. I am not sure captive raised fish could ever support this hobby the way that it is and we would certainly loose allot of fish permanently from the hobby. without a diversity of fish most would get bored and quit.

 

[Huskymaniac]

Partly but the point still stands this hobby can not survive without wild fish yet not even close not unless people want just clownfish and a few other fish. The price of these other fish only a few very wealthy people would be able to afford.
Plus who would invest in a declining hobby. I am not sure captive raised fish could ever support this hobby the way that it is and we would certainly loose allot of fish permanently from the hobby. without a diversity of fish most would get bored and quit.

Most get bored and quit anyways and should probably have stuck to goldfish. Haha

 

[KimG]

Partly but the point still stands this hobby can not survive without wild fish yet not even close not unless people want just clownfish and a few other fish. The price of these other fish only a few very wealthy people would be able to afford.
Plus who would invest in a declining hobby. I am not sure captive raised fish could ever support this hobby the way that it is and we would certainly loose allot of fish permanently from the hobby. without a diversity of fish most would get bored and quit.

While I don't think wild caught is ending any time soon I do think captive breeding could still sustain the hobby. Would it be much more boring and less diverse? Certainly. More expensive? Yep.

But most of the corals in the hobby can be propagated in captivity, so that part is covered.
And there are already several species that are bread cheaply. Granted, they are a minority, but you could still continue the hobby. Also, with less wild caught fish and higher prices, it makes it more interesting for companies to invest in captive breeding as they don't have to compete with fish that cost really small values.

 

[Screwgunner]

Well I made it to the local reef shop and low and behold a yellow tang walked out with him and 299 dollars lighter.

 

[shred5]

While I don't think wild caught is ending any time soon I do think captive breeding could still sustain the hobby. Would it be much more boring and less diverse? Certainly. More expensive? Yep.

But most of the corals in the hobby can be propagated in captivity, so that part is covered.
And there are already several species that are bread cheaply. Granted, they are a minority, but you could still continue the hobby. Also, with less wild caught fish and higher prices, it makes it more interesting for companies to invest in captive breeding as they don't have to compete with fish that cost really small values.

I didn't say the hobby would not continue. It would be far smaller that it is now. Most people posting on this forum would be gone. I think the hobby is already declining from the higher prices. Most people get into this hobby doing fish first. This hobby is already thought of as expensive and turns people away. Breeding fish and propagating corals does not even compare. You would be surprised how many corals still come from the wild. Most lps still comes from the wild. Just because it a frag does not mean it was captive raised in a farm.

I myself have been in the reef hobby 30+ years and saltwater maybe 35+ years. While I like clowns I do not think I would be in the hobby if it was the only fish I could afford. I would probably leave and do freshwater or a palladium.

 

[blasterman]

I myself have been in the reef hobby 30+ years and saltwater maybe 35+ years. While I like clowns I do not think I would be in the hobby if it was the only fish I could afford. I would probably leave and do freshwater or a palladium.

I have 3 Damsels in my tank and a wall of SPS that's almost disgusting. Again, many of you are defining what this hobby is, and with all due respect your definition doesn't represent mine.

I look at all the fish death threads here, and nobody seems to care. Just throw more fish captured on wild reefs on a cargo plane and throw them in a glass box with god knows what chemical suppliments because somebody is too stupid to determine basic biology from marketing. Kill more of them and whine about bans. If that's your goal...then by all means leave. Start a puppy mill or something.

FW fish are almost entirely captive raised and bred. This is the direction the industry needs to go, or move in another direction.

 

[blackstallion]

Bought my 5" YT in October from an online vendor before the ban.

He came in a water logged box, and when I opened it up, there was only a few mm of water at best on the bottom that the fish was holding onto life in.

I quickly got him into QT, where he floated upside down overnight!

SOMEHOW, he made it through and is now thriving in my reef.

So glad I was able to save him!

 

[shred5]

I myself have been in the reef hobby 30+ years and saltwater maybe 35+ years. While I like clowns I do not think I would be in the hobby if it was the only fish I could afford. I would probably leave and do freshwater or a palladium.

I have 3 Damsels in my tank and a wall of SPS that's almost disgusting. Again, many of you are defining what this hobby is, and with all due respect your definition doesn't represent mine.

I look at all the fish death threads here, and nobody seems to care. Just throw more fish captured on wild reefs on a cargo plane and throw them in a glass box with god knows what chemical suppliments because somebody is too stupid to determine basic biology from marketing. Kill more of them and whine about bans. If that's your goal...then by all means leave. Start a puppy mill or something.

FW fish are almost entirely captive raised and bred. This is the direction the industry needs to go, or move in another direction.

You do not know me. You are right there are allot of people who do not care but do not ever point that finger at me. I think there are plenty of people who can vouch for me in this hobby and know I care about what happens in this hobby and the animals.

I have captive bred saltwater fish and plan on breeding more and some inverts. How many have you done? Again you can not compare saltwater breeding to the fresh water hobby and it is not even close to the same. Most freshwater fish can be bred at home by most people if they want to. It is not the same for saltwater fish except a few.

So you like 3 fish that is not the same for most in the hobby.

We can collect wild fish with proper management and we need to do better as a hobby all the way from the collector to retailer and home.

 

[Huskymaniac]

So how long do you think my wild caught yellow tang can live in a nuvo 2.5 desktop tank?

 

[Cool tangs]

I myself have been in the reef hobby 30+ years and saltwater maybe 35+ years. While I like clowns I do not think I would be in the hobby if it was the only fish I could afford. I would probably leave and do freshwater or a palladium.

I have 3 Damsels in my tank and a wall of SPS that's almost disgusting. Again, many of you are defining what this hobby is, and with all due respect your definition doesn't represent mine.

I look at all the fish death threads here, and nobody seems to care. Just throw more fish captured on wild reefs on a cargo plane and throw them in a glass box with god knows what chemical suppliments because somebody is too stupid to determine basic biology from marketing. Kill more of them and whine about bans. If that's your goal...then by all means leave. Start a puppy mill or something.

FW fish are almost entirely captive raised and bred. This is the direction the industry needs to go, or move in another direction.

Not all countries can rely on the future of captive bred fish, in some countries they are illegal. whilst it great in theory. In reallity we should be investing that time and effort into ways to help the fish and reefs thrive naturally and giving people in the hobby proper education on basic husbandry. Keeping a saltwater tank can be really simple, it just gets confusing with so much incorrect information spread over the internet. Most people care about there pets. Im not sure about you, but i dont go out buying $100+ fish to just not care and let it die. Or any animal that i intent to keep!

 

[Cool tangs]

I didn't say the hobby would not continue. It would be far smaller that it is now. Most people posting on this forum would be gone. I think the hobby is already declining from the higher prices. Most people get into this hobby doing fish first. This hobby is already thought of as expensive and turns people away. Breeding fish and propagating corals does not even compare. You would be surprised how many corals still come from the wild. Most lps still comes from the wild. Just because it a frag does not mean it was captive raised in a farm.

I myself have been in the reef hobby 30+ years and saltwater maybe 35+ years. While I like clowns I do not think I would be in the hobby if it was the only fish I could afford. I would probably leave and do freshwater or a palladium.

"Breeding fish and propagating corals does not even compare."

I agree, whilst there is some fast growing corals out there, they grow best in there natural inviroment. A lot of corals, well 99% in aus are taken from the wild.

I actually feel sorry for some countries when i see the price tag of "aussie corals" compared to what we actually pay for them here, its just insane. But then we suffer as well with overseas imports. Not to mention invertebrates are illegal so some lfs sell a bubble tip nem for $600 - $1000, trade ins from someones tank before the ban. but in all honesty its not even about the price tag though. We do it for enjoyment and passion, like all hobbies.

 

[Fakegolfnews]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Hawaii is not Indonesia. Its politics are very stable. Currently there are only five elected republican officials in the entire state government. 92% of the state legislature are democrats.

Rigged elections, thats all changing very quickly

 

[JoDiRae146]

I am thankful that my yellow tang is still alive. If it died, then I have to wait until the ban is over

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

I am thankful that my yellow tang is still alive. If it died, then I have to wait until the ban is over

Not sure if you're aware but breeding programs have popped up filling the void pretty quickly. YT prices in socal have gone from 350-400 in May, to $200 already.

 

[nereefpat]

Not sure if you're aware but breeding programs have popped up filling the void pretty quickly. YT prices in socal have gone from 350-400 in May, to $200 already.

Hopefully down to the pre-ban 99$ sometime in the next year or so. Shipping costs also hurt.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Hopefully down to the pre-ban 99$ sometime in the next year or so. Shipping costs also hurt.

Capitalism works despite it being out of fashion these days it seems. Follow biota on iG and see the expansion of their HI breeding facility. I know of a few other hobby breeders that have switched over to yt and gems exclusively to fill the supply gap. I don't think I'll be able to replace my YT for the $25 he was sold for many years ago, but they also aren't disappearing from the market as the fears were.

 

[Dana Riddle]

When I was on the West Hawaii Fishery Council, I voiced an unpopular view: Any Hawaiian fish that could be captive bred on a commercial scale should be placed on the collection restriction list. Didn't happen then, and might have prevented future issues. Who knows.