Hawaii fish ban update

[livinlifeinBKK]

Wrong. It is getting solved. These things take time, the wheels of justice move slow

we are really close. Soon

Actually i tend to agree with @areefer01 when he says that either side can sit down and have a discussion which is making it impossible to come to a mutual agreement which would satisfy both sides. And those same wheels of justice you mentioned already moved...just not in your favor. Hopefully they will move once again but this time in your favor soon though tbh.

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

Actually i tend to agree with @areefer01 when he says that either side can sit down and have a discussion which is making it impossible to come to a mutual agreement which would satisfy both sides. And those same wheels of justice you mentioned already moved...just not in your favor. Hopefully they will move once again but this time in your favor soon though tbh.

Do you always chime in and tell people on the front line what’s transpired even though you’re not even part of it? We won in the courts…twice. The path is cleared. The other side? There is no compromise on their part….they’re radical. All the compromise and concessions came from the fishers side even tho there wasn’t a scientific basis for it.
We will be back VERY soon.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I

Do you always chime in and tell people on the front line what’s transpired even though you’re not even part of it? We won in the courts…twice. The path is cleared. The other side? There is no compromise on their part….they’re radical. All the compromise and concessions came from the fishers side even tho there wasn’t a scientific basis for it.
We will be back VERY soon.

I Really do hope you guys are able to come back and the ban is lifted...I've looked into the research and it seems clear to me. Has there been any attempt at a discussion between both sides though? I'm aware there are radical groups out there who are unwilling to bend to anyone and perhaps they are one of them.
Btw, this is an online forum in a member of so i can chime in on any topic at any time i wish.

 

[AcroNem]

I don't think they're removing hundreds of millions of tons of yellow tangs for food but i have no idea tbh. It just seems highly unlikely.

No. That's simply a weight of fish caught for food. Not yellow tangs. I'm only saying it makes little sense to ban ornamental fishing on grounds of population damage when Achilles tangs and other fish are caught in significantly larger quantities for food.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

No. That's simply a weight of fish caught for food. Not yellow tangs. I'm only saying it makes little sense to ban ornamental fishing on grounds of population damage when Achilles tangs and other fish are caught in significantly larger quantities for food.

Agreed

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

I

I Really do hope you guys are able to come back and the ban is lifted...I've looked into the research and it seems clear to me. Has there been any attempt at a discussion between both sides though? I'm aware there are radical groups out there who are unwilling to bend to anyone and perhaps they are one of them.
Btw, this is an online forum in a member of so i can chime in on any topic at any time i wish.

No one said you can’t chime in, I just questioned if you do the same routine every time.
Has there been any attempt? Lol. Of course man…the HEPA process is a disclosure document and every one that has an interest from the public can request to be a “consulted party”. They had multiple interactions within the HEPA process and additionally through multiple lawsuits

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

No one said you can’t chime in, I just questioned if you do the same routine every time.
Has there been any attempt? Lol. Of course man…the HEPA process is a disclosure document and every one that has an interest from the public can request to be a “consulted party”. They had multiple interactions within the HEPA process and additionally through multiple lawsuits

Well i chime in when I see the post...can't do much about the time it was posted

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

Well i chime in when I see the post...can't do much about the time it was posted

Not even sure what that means. I was referring to the way you interact with people on this forum. Pretty sure you and I have mixed it up before and you speak to people as if you know everything about a particular topic even though your knowledge is very limited. Keep in mind, you are speaking with the person on the frontline of the Hawaii issue and what I’m sharing is my lived experience, not something I read online in a fish magazine or a blog

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Not even sure what that means. I was referring to the way you interact with people on this forum. Pretty sure you and I have mixed it up before and you speak to people as if you know everything about a particular topic even though your knowledge is very limited. Keep in mind, you are speaking with the person on the frontline of the Hawaii issue and what I’m sharing is my lived experience, not something I read online in a fish magazine or a blog

Pretty much everything i say is an opinion and i don't present it as fact...

 

[Ben Pedersen]

Not even sure what that means. I was referring to the way you interact with people on this forum. Pretty sure you and I have mixed it up before and you speak to people as if you know everything about a particular topic even though your knowledge is very limited. Keep in mind, you are speaking with the person on the frontline of the Hawaii issue and what I’m sharing is my lived experience, not something I read online in a fish magazine or a blog

Kona Diver, is there a general consensus opinion from the Kānaka Maoli? If yes, what is it? Also, I lived in Kona in the 80s, do they still sell tangs for human consumption locally?

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

Kona Diver, is there a general consensus opinion from the Kānaka Maoli? If yes, what is it? Also, I lived in Kona in the 80s, do they still sell tangs for human consumption locally?

Kanaka don’t care about this topic. Most people in Hawaii don’t. This whole thing is driven by foreign interests through their surrogates. The kanaka that recently joined into the issue(last five years or so) are literally paid spokespeople for the environmental groups that can’t get traction with their radical agenda.
As to your other question, yea…some tangs are sold at places like Suisan in Hilo

 

[MariahP]

I actually can see both sides of this argument. I’m a marine scientist who has worked in fisheries management and fisheries policy for almost a decade. At a population level, I do think the evidence is there that taking ornamental fish out of the wild isn’t impacting the species as a whole.

What I do think is interesting though is that at the end of the day our hobby is one of animal husbandry. And when it comes to yellow tangs, the captive bred tangs are a hands down winner on the animal husbandry front. Sure, they may not be cheap, but at the end of the day they’re more likely to eat, survive, and thrive in a tank than wild caught fish.

I think all of us here on this particular forum are the best type of reef keepers because we are taking our time to do research and read up on our choices, but there a lot of people who keep fish that aren’t like us. We can’t ignore that a lot of those wild caught fish die in the process of being shipped, held at stores, or being sold to someone who doesn’t know how best to acclimate them.

I, personally, would love to see a lot more investment in and demand for captive bred fish because I think it’s best for what is at the core of this hobby - our love for fish and desire to keep them healthy and happy.

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

I actually can see both sides of this argument. I’m a marine scientist who has worked in fisheries management and fisheries policy for almost a decade. At a population level, I do think the evidence is there that taking ornamental fish out of the wild isn’t impacting the species as a whole.

What I do think is interesting though is that at the end of the day our hobby is one of animal husbandry. And when it comes to yellow tangs, the captive bred tangs are a hands down winner on the animal husbandry front. Sure, they may not be cheap, but at the end of the day they’re more likely to eat, survive, and thrive in a tank than wild caught fish.

I think all of us here on this particular forum are the best type of reef keepers because we are taking our time to do research and read up on our choices, but there a lot of people who keep fish that aren’t like us. We can’t ignore that a lot of those wild caught fish die in the process of being shipped, held at stores, or being sold to someone who doesn’t know how best to acclimate them.

I, personally, would love to see a lot more investment in and demand for captive bred fish because I think it’s best for what is at the core of this hobby - our love for fish and desire to keep them healthy and happy.

It’s interesting that all the fishery scientists involved in Hawaii have came in so strongly in support of the fishery. I asked one of them why that was the case and he told me “ because, if this fishery gets taken out with lies and slander, and it’s the best ran aquarium fishery in the world, then every fishery is in trouble”

IMO, aquaculture should focus on fish that are niches, not ones that make up a fishery that is sustainable and well managed. The two things should complement each other, not work against. Yellow tangs from the wild are robust and thrive in captivity…this isn’t even an issue. The assertion that all these yellow tangs die in holding or transport is just a fabricated story by people opposed to the fishery. I can count how many fish perish in our operation for an entire year on one hand! And that’s including collection, holding, and shipping

 

[areefer01]

Actually i tend to agree with @areefer01 when he says that either side can sit down and have a discussion which is making it impossible to come to a mutual agreement which would satisfy both sides. And those same wheels of justice you mentioned already moved...just not in your favor. Hopefully they will move once again but this time in your favor soon though tbh.

Agreed and you pretty much hit what I was trying to say. It is like no one wants to compromise. No give. No take. Nothing. Just bam, stop everything.

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

Do you always chime in and tell people on the front line what’s transpired even though you’re not even part of it? We won in the courts…twice. The path is cleared. The other side? There is no compromise on their part….they’re radical. All the compromise and concessions came from the fishers side even tho there wasn’t a scientific basis for it.
We will be back VERY soon.

Glad to read. It deserves to be re visited and opened to past practice . The fishery is well regulated and is a US State. This is not destructive to the ecology.

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

It’s interesting that all the fishery scientists involved in Hawaii have came in so strongly in support of the fishery. I asked one of them why that was the case and he told me “ because, if this fishery gets taken out with lies and slander, and it’s the best ran aquarium fishery in the world, then every fishery is in trouble”

IMO, aquaculture should focus on fish that are niches, not ones that make up a fishery that is sustainable and well managed. The two things should complement each other, not work against. Yellow tangs from the wild are robust and thrive in captivity…this isn’t even an issue. The assertion that all these yellow tangs die in holding or transport is just a fabricated story by people opposed to the fishery. I can count how many fish perish in our operation for an entire year on one hand! And that’s including collection, holding, and shipping

Like why would we even need fishery “managers” if we just shut fisheries down? If that’s the case, just get rid of the managers too. No need to have them around sponging up resources

I actually can see both sides of this argument. I’m a marine scientist who has worked in fisheries management and fisheries policy for almost a decade. At a population level, I do think the evidence is there that taking ornamental fish out of the wild isn’t impacting the species as a whole.

What I do think is interesting though is that at the end of the day our hobby is one of animal husbandry. And when it comes to yellow tangs, the captive bred tangs are a hands down winner on the animal husbandry front. Sure, they may not be cheap, but at the end of the day they’re more likely to eat, survive, and thrive in a tank than wild caught fish.

I think all of us here on this particular forum are the best type of reef keepers because we are taking our time to do research and read up on our choices, but there a lot of people who keep fish that aren’t like us. We can’t ignore that a lot of those wild caught fish die in the process of being shipped, held at stores, or being sold to someone who doesn’t know how best to acclimate them.

I, personally, would love to see a lot more investment in and demand for captive bred fish because I think it’s best for what is at the core of this hobby - our love for fish and desire to keep them healthy and happy.

another interesting thing to mention since you brought up fish mortality in captivity. Are you aware how many fish die in aquaculture operations? More than what ends up being sold. If the argument is strictly about fish dying, aquaculture guys have some explaining to do.

 

[Eric Cohen]

Next time bring them into the woods and bury them in the dead of night.... that's what I do.

I kept any losses we had in the freezer from that day on and tossed them on pickup days.

 

[Ben Pedersen]

Kanaka don’t care about this topic. Most people in Hawaii don’t. This whole thing is driven by foreign interests through their surrogates. The kanaka that recently joined into the issue(last five years or so) are literally paid spokespeople for the environmental groups that can’t get traction with their radical agenda.
As to your other question, yea…some tangs are sold at places like Suisan in Hilo

Thanks for the resposne.. Ya, I remember when you could get a box of assorted tangs to eat. . Wonder what the apposing side thinks about that.

The crazy thing is that the research has been done, peer-reviewed and accepted but the apposing side seems to be ignoring it. I guess they don't understand that enabling a financial benefit for any natural resource almost always leads to better protection of the resource by those who benefit from it.

 

[zoomonster]

Truly sad situation and not much better here in Florida. Never got the obsession with pigeon of the sea yellow tangs but to each his own. IME they were always the most prone to disease especially lateral line but hey they were the most affordable of tangs. I'll take purple, powder blue and hippo any day over yellows. On the other hand, I do fully support Hawaiian fisheries where if nothing else I want a replacement for my Potter's angel and maybe another Hawaiin flame angel. Forget where my current came from but IMO not as vivid as Hawaiian I had long ago.

 

[albano]

I do fully support Hawaiian fisheries where if nothing else I want a replacement for my Potter's angel and maybe another Hawaiin flame angel. Forget where my current came from but IMO not as vivid as Hawaiian I had long ago.

Current what, came from? Flame angel…I agree Hawaiian is best