Heartbreak-Need help :(
- Thread starter Sashaka
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OP
OP
I'll try to get some new pics of the angel and also some of the cleaner wrasses. I will try to get some pictures using my husband's phone camera. It may take better pictures. In the pictures I posted, you can see the white patches on the blue tang that died, more on one side than the other. It only had a small patch on that side when I first got it. The parasite spread very fast. The angel looks more like fine salt dust. It was all over the fish, but more patchy looking than randomly sprinkled all over the fish. After a few days in CopperPower, I did notice some fin fraying, though not much. The angel now looks like it has developed lateral line disease or maybe they are lesions starting if it is Brook?
OP
OP
Hi Humblefish
The pictures above are of the two fish purchased from BlueZoo taken two days (tang) and about 4 days (angel) after receiving them. I put them both into quarantine without dipping upon unboxing. The BH Tang died in two days. I immediately took the angel out of quarantine and tried to do a FW dip, but I was only able to keep it in the dip about a minute because it was so stressed. I acclimated it into the CopperPower tank I had going with the freebie fish because it was my only sick tank at the time ready for it. Because the fish was in the FWD for such a short time, I didn't really see anything in the bowl. It may have flukes, I don't know. The angel is just starting to come out and eat again. I do think the salty haze is getting better or lessening, but it may be starting lateral line disease now. Do you think it has flukes, too? I'll try to get better pictures tomorrow. The fish freaks out when I put on the light.
The pictures above are of the two fish purchased from BlueZoo taken two days (tang) and about 4 days (angel) after receiving them. I put them both into quarantine without dipping upon unboxing. The BH Tang died in two days. I immediately took the angel out of quarantine and tried to do a FW dip, but I was only able to keep it in the dip about a minute because it was so stressed. I acclimated it into the CopperPower tank I had going with the freebie fish because it was my only sick tank at the time ready for it. Because the fish was in the FWD for such a short time, I didn't really see anything in the bowl. It may have flukes, I don't know. The angel is just starting to come out and eat again. I do think the salty haze is getting better or lessening, but it may be starting lateral line disease now. Do you think it has flukes, too? I'll try to get better pictures tomorrow. The fish freaks out when I put on the light.
OP
OP
Humblefish,
The angel sick tank is using CP right now. The 75gal is using CopperPower. The API copper test kit is really hard to read. It goes from 2 to 4 on the color chart and the medicinal level to run CopperPower is 2.5. Since there is no way of being sure of the copper level using this kit, I always make sure the color is in-between the 2 and 4. I'm sure at times I may be running it a bit high, but I check it each day and watch the fish for stress. When I do water changes, the copper level is added to each 5gal water change bucket, not directly into the sick tank. The blue line wrasses in the 75gal CopperPower tank have already gone to bed, so I'll try to get a pic of them tomorrow and post it.
The angel sick tank is using CP right now. The 75gal is using CopperPower. The API copper test kit is really hard to read. It goes from 2 to 4 on the color chart and the medicinal level to run CopperPower is 2.5. Since there is no way of being sure of the copper level using this kit, I always make sure the color is in-between the 2 and 4. I'm sure at times I may be running it a bit high, but I check it each day and watch the fish for stress. When I do water changes, the copper level is added to each 5gal water change bucket, not directly into the sick tank. The blue line wrasses in the 75gal CopperPower tank have already gone to bed, so I'll try to get a pic of them tomorrow and post it.
@Sashaka My instincts tell me you likely have multiple ailments in play here: external parasites, a bacterial infection, possibly even flukes. I think you really need to do a full 5 min FW dip on one of the fish (that is scratching) to confirm/rule out that possibility. Saltwater flukes in freshwater will look like what you see in the video here and pics beneath it: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-dip.248898/
A FW dip is a very important diagnostic tool we use when we suspect multiple diseases might be afflicting a fish. So we can (hopefully) rule flukes out and hone in on other disease possibilities & specific treatments.
A FW dip is a very important diagnostic tool we use when we suspect multiple diseases might be afflicting a fish. So we can (hopefully) rule flukes out and hone in on other disease possibilities & specific treatments.
OP
OP
I forgot to mention when updating about the majestic angel, I saw white stringy fecal matter hanging from the angel's butt yesterday. I don't want to add another med to the tank yet as I am already treating with CP and Furan 2 - and as soon as the other antibiotics come in that you suggested I will use them in combination with the Furan2. So, hopefully the internal parasite (likely the cause of the white fecal matter) will not kill the fish and I can dose with General Cure or Prazipro later. If the fish does have flukes, hopefully that will cure them. Any way you look at it, this angel is one sick fish. I always expect it to be dead when I get up in the morning, but it continues to surprise me with it's will to live. It has even started swimming out of hiding when it sees me in the morning to get breakfast. It's eating a bit better now. While it is true that I've spent hundreds of dollars trying to get this fish well, it is truly a fighter. If it's going to fight this hard to survive, I want to do everything I can to help it. 
This is a symptom of intestinal worms: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/internal-parasites-intestinal-worms.267419/
Treatable by food soaking metronidazole: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/metronidazole.298762/
You must also use Seachem Focus to bind the medication to food: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/metronidazole.298762/#post-3655831
OP
OP
Ok. I'll try to catch one of the blue line wrasses (or both) tomorrow and do a freshwater dip. I hate stressing all the fish in the tank out trying to catch them because they are fast and hard to catch, but I know I need to figure out what is wrong with them. I'll let you know how it goes. Thank you for the link. I've watched a few videos for doing a FWD before, and I have done them for other fish before, but I'll check out the link before doing the dip to make sure I know what I'm looking for when looking for the flukes.
Thanks again for you help!
Sashaka
Thanks again for you help!
Sashaka
OP
OP
I have MetroPlex and KanaPlex ordered per your recommendation in an earlier post. I will have to buy Seachem Focus. Maybe I can find it at a LFS so I don't have to wait longer to get it in.
Thanks for the links! The video was very helpful, showing exactly what to look for, better than the ones I've watched on YouTube. I like how the woman uses a separate quarantine container right in the tank. She continues to use air though and the link directions you provided say to remove the airstone after putting the fish in the dip. What is the reasoning behind removing the airstone or leaving it in during the dip?
Thanks for your continued help!
Thanks for the links! The video was very helpful, showing exactly what to look for, better than the ones I've watched on YouTube. I like how the woman uses a separate quarantine container right in the tank. She continues to use air though and the link directions you provided say to remove the airstone after putting the fish in the dip. What is the reasoning behind removing the airstone or leaving it in during the dip?
Thanks for your continued help!
OP
OP
Quoted from Humblefish's April 2, thread: "Use Seachem Focus to bind it to the food, and feed until symptoms (white stringy poop) are gone. For brook & uronema, dose the medication directly into a quarantine tank for at least 10 days."
I was thinking of doing both medicated food and direct tank dosing. Hum... would brook cause white stringy poo as like the other internal bugs? That would make sense as brook is what I was thinking the hippo tang and the angel came in with because of the heavy white mucus like patches on the blue hippo, the fine salt like patches on the angel, and the frayed fins on the angel. I'm guessing the blue line wrasses have it too...and probably all my fish at this point.
Ok..I'll stop rambling. I'll check in tomorrow and let you know what I find out. Good night...and thanks for listening and helping.
I was thinking of doing both medicated food and direct tank dosing. Hum... would brook cause white stringy poo as like the other internal bugs? That would make sense as brook is what I was thinking the hippo tang and the angel came in with because of the heavy white mucus like patches on the blue hippo, the fine salt like patches on the angel, and the frayed fins on the angel. I'm guessing the blue line wrasses have it too...and probably all my fish at this point.
Ok..I'll stop rambling. I'll check in tomorrow and let you know what I find out. Good night...and thanks for listening and helping.
Leaving the airstone in just provides additional O2 during the dip. Not really necessary if you aerate well beforehand.
White stringy poop is not a symptom of brook, only intestinal worms.
That video of the FW dip was done by our very own @melypr1985.
White stringy poop is not a symptom of brook, only intestinal worms.
That video of the FW dip was done by our very own @melypr1985.
OP
OP
Sorry, I haven't posted an update in awhile. The work and the stress continue....
The video by melypr1985 was very helpful. Thank you for posting! I managed to FW dip several fish from different tanks. Unfortunately, I could not catch one of the blue lined wrasses in the 75 gal, but I did dip the yellow tang from that tank. I saw it scratch against one of the PVC pipes the same day I did the dip. There were some tiny floating particles in the water after the dip, but not many, and not nearly as large as what was observed in the video. I did not see any come off the fish's body like I saw in the video. In truth, the particles could have come from the tank as I scooped the fish into the net and then transferred it (and particles) to the dip container. I feel like the dip was inconclusive. If anything did come off the fish, my guess is it came from the gills of the fish, not the body. I watched the fish very closely for the full 5 minutes.
I have finished a month plus of CopperPower in the 75 gal and did a 40 gal water change today without adding copper back into the tank for the first time in over a month. I think the fish are too stressed for another round of copper at this point, and it does not seem to be working against whatever is still ailing the fish. I finished two rounds of the Furan2 treatment without success in curing the infection on the yellow tang too. I'm still dosing food with the MetroPlex, KanaPlex, and Focus. The fish hate the taste and don't eat it very well. I'm using garlic guard to try to get them to eat a little better. I lost my flame hawk two days ago from this tank. I don't know if it died from the many treatments I've been doing or if PuffDaddy, the porcupine puffer, decided he didn't want to eat the crappy tasting food anymore and bit its head off. Whether PuffDaddy bit its head off while it was alive or if he did it after it was dead is in question, but either way, I got up to another heartbreak in the morning - a dead fish.
I don't think the treatments are working well. I plan to give the fish in the 75 gal a few days of rest from copper, then dose with General Cure. I will continue with the MetroPlex and KanaPlex for another week.
I also dipped two fish from an untreated main display tank as I saw some fish scratching in that tank now. I'm worried that whatever is in my other tanks is in this MD tank now too. Gawd help me! The tanks are set up about 4 ft from each other. What was I thinking! I didn't know about contamination through the air then. I saw about the same results with fish from this tank as with the yellow tang from the 75 gal...nothing visible coming off the fish but a few white specs in the water after the dip. When a sick tank opens up, I think I will treat with General Cure all the fish in this tank too, just to be on the safe side.
The 29 gal CP sick tank with the majestic angel was dosed with Furan2 for 10 days. I am continuing to feed the MetroPlex and KanaPlex with Focus in this tank too. The angel hides a lot, but continues to survive. The CP comes out in another week. I have not dipped the majestic angel yet. It's still so stressed; it hides most of the time. I'm thinking I might just treat with General Cure when I finish the CP treatment and skip the dip.
I continue with water changes every two or three days, daily monitoring for ammonia spikes, and visually looking for signs of stress and/or recovery. The only upside is I no longer have to monitor for copper levels anymore.
After I treat the 75 gal with General Cure, I have to decide if I should try treating the tank with CP in hopes of killing whatever won't die in the copperpower. I will have to figure out what to do with the wrasses and other fish that won't tolerate the CP treatment. Any thoughts about this plan of action? Am I doing too much...not enough? In truth, I'm exhausted as I need to do all the water changes carrying buckets. I don't trust that the hose I used to use is contaminant free.
The video by melypr1985 was very helpful. Thank you for posting! I managed to FW dip several fish from different tanks. Unfortunately, I could not catch one of the blue lined wrasses in the 75 gal, but I did dip the yellow tang from that tank. I saw it scratch against one of the PVC pipes the same day I did the dip. There were some tiny floating particles in the water after the dip, but not many, and not nearly as large as what was observed in the video. I did not see any come off the fish's body like I saw in the video. In truth, the particles could have come from the tank as I scooped the fish into the net and then transferred it (and particles) to the dip container. I feel like the dip was inconclusive. If anything did come off the fish, my guess is it came from the gills of the fish, not the body. I watched the fish very closely for the full 5 minutes.
I have finished a month plus of CopperPower in the 75 gal and did a 40 gal water change today without adding copper back into the tank for the first time in over a month. I think the fish are too stressed for another round of copper at this point, and it does not seem to be working against whatever is still ailing the fish. I finished two rounds of the Furan2 treatment without success in curing the infection on the yellow tang too. I'm still dosing food with the MetroPlex, KanaPlex, and Focus. The fish hate the taste and don't eat it very well. I'm using garlic guard to try to get them to eat a little better. I lost my flame hawk two days ago from this tank. I don't know if it died from the many treatments I've been doing or if PuffDaddy, the porcupine puffer, decided he didn't want to eat the crappy tasting food anymore and bit its head off. Whether PuffDaddy bit its head off while it was alive or if he did it after it was dead is in question, but either way, I got up to another heartbreak in the morning - a dead fish.
I don't think the treatments are working well. I plan to give the fish in the 75 gal a few days of rest from copper, then dose with General Cure. I will continue with the MetroPlex and KanaPlex for another week.
I also dipped two fish from an untreated main display tank as I saw some fish scratching in that tank now. I'm worried that whatever is in my other tanks is in this MD tank now too. Gawd help me! The tanks are set up about 4 ft from each other. What was I thinking! I didn't know about contamination through the air then. I saw about the same results with fish from this tank as with the yellow tang from the 75 gal...nothing visible coming off the fish but a few white specs in the water after the dip. When a sick tank opens up, I think I will treat with General Cure all the fish in this tank too, just to be on the safe side.
The 29 gal CP sick tank with the majestic angel was dosed with Furan2 for 10 days. I am continuing to feed the MetroPlex and KanaPlex with Focus in this tank too. The angel hides a lot, but continues to survive. The CP comes out in another week. I have not dipped the majestic angel yet. It's still so stressed; it hides most of the time. I'm thinking I might just treat with General Cure when I finish the CP treatment and skip the dip.
I continue with water changes every two or three days, daily monitoring for ammonia spikes, and visually looking for signs of stress and/or recovery. The only upside is I no longer have to monitor for copper levels anymore.
After I treat the 75 gal with General Cure, I have to decide if I should try treating the tank with CP in hopes of killing whatever won't die in the copperpower. I will have to figure out what to do with the wrasses and other fish that won't tolerate the CP treatment. Any thoughts about this plan of action? Am I doing too much...not enough? In truth, I'm exhausted as I need to do all the water changes carrying buckets. I don't trust that the hose I used to use is contaminant free.
OP
OP
Update: My yellow tang died today. I couldn't save it. I'm pretty sure it was the bacterial infection that I couldn't clear up. The tang hung on for a long time; it was a fighter. Last week it stopped eating. Nothing I tried to entice it to eat worked. It was small when I bought it. I guess it was about 6 - 7 inches when it died. All the fish in this tank are still itching. I'm about ready to try CP, even though I have wrasses in the tank. I've tried everything else. At this point, what can it really hurt? The fish are still sick and dying. Any advise about how much and how quickly to add the CP to the tank would be appreciated.
hfa3501
New Member
Do you have a QT tank? If so, I would recommend trying Kanaplex. It is specifically made for bacterial infections. If you don't have a QT, you can also use as a dip; however, if you have a lot of animals to treat that can be a major pain.
Because of the wrasses, I would only dose @ 40mg/gal. But if any stop eating, transfer them to another QT and treat with chelated copper (e.g. Coppersafe) instead.
