Heat from friction?

[Shad Quill]

Has anyone ever heard of or experienced a couple of degree heat increase due to head height and water to pipe friction?

 

[pirate2876]

I had someone describe it to be regarding pipe length and size. We were talking about how long a run from the chiller was and how the reduced piping with that water flow would increase friction and reduce the cooling effect of the chiller...I ended up doing it anyways and it was fine.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Has anyone ever heard of or experienced a couple of degree heat increase due to head height and water to pipe friction?

No. The amount of friction from water passing in our tiny systems couldn't generate enough heat.

Pumps, lighting and ambient room temperature can for sure.

 

[reefwiser]

One would have to have a whole lot of 90 degree elbows [emoji3]

 

[DCR]

Heat from friction is very real. All of the energy that is put into powerheads and return pumps ultimately is wasted due friction in the pump, friction in the pipe, or friction within the tank itself. It all tends to raise the temperature of the tank. It is basic fisrt law of thermodynamics - conservation of energy. No other place for that energy to go.

 

[Breadman03]

Heat from friction is very real. All of the energy that is put into powerheads and return pumps ultimately is wasted due friction in the pump, friction in the pipe, or friction within the tank itself. It all tends to raise the temperature of the tank. It is basic fisrt law of thermodynamics - conservation of energy. No other place for that energy to go.

Correct, though evaporation typically keeps our temps in check to the point that we need to run a heater to maintain 78 or so. Did you get a new return pump with this increase in head height? I'm of the understanding that some pumps tend to transfer more heat to the water than others.

 

[Shad Quill]

Correct, though evaporation typically keeps our temps in check to the point that we need to run a heater to maintain 78 or so. Did you get a new return pump with this increase in head height? I'm of the understanding that some pumps tend to transfer more heat to the water than others.

I did get a new pump.. reeflo yellowtail. Here's the thing, I have my skimmer pump and that's it in the sump for heat producing sources and a gyre in the DT. My room temp in the sump room is 70 and upstairs in the living room where the DT tank is is 71. My system is running at 81 degrees. I can't figure out where the 10 degree increase is coming from.

 

[14 foot reef]

I run two Reeflo Yellowtail pumps, the heat is really coming from the motor and pump head. My tank went up 4 degrees when I switched to the Suntails. This summer I'll have to add a chiller as last summer the tank crept up to 86 degrees in the heat of the summer months. In the dead of winter it runs 77 without any type of heater.

 

[Shad Quill]

I run two Reeflo Yellowtail pumps, the heat is really coming from the motor and pump head. My tank went up 4 degrees when I switched to the Suntails. This summer I'll have to add a chiller as last summer the tank crept up to 86 degrees in the heat of the summer months. In the dead of winter it runs 77 without any type of heater.

I was thinking that was problem. Guess I'll have to start chiller shopping.

 

[Mike Reef Addict]

I just added a 700gph wave bump and got a 1.5° F temp change.

 

[MarsRover]

Heat from friction is real...yes....BUT what the OP is describing would not cause noticeable heat differential in inlet vs outlet water temp. Any heat gain would be very quickly dissipated by heat loss to surroundings (I assume you don’t keep your ambient as warm as your tank typically).

 

[Shad Quill]

Heat from friction is real...yes....BUT what the OP is describing would not cause noticeable heat differential in inlet vs outlet water temp. Any heat gain would be very quickly dissipated by heat loss to surroundings (I assume you don’t keep your ambient as warm as your tank typically).

No the basement where the sump is located is at 70. The living room where the display is stays at 72. My water temp is 82.4.

 

[MarsRover]

No the basement where the sump is located is at 70. The living room where the display is stays at 72. My water temp is 82.4.

Yeah, exactly. The heat loss through your PVC, I’m sure, is significantly larger than Any heat gain. In fact, I probably could post the equations and show you that the heat gain by friction per unit foot of pipe is less than the heat loss by convection/conduction through the pipe and into your ambient.

Now, your water being heated by pumps themselves, that is a promise for sure. Pumps, motors in general, give lots of heat.

 

[Shad Quill]

Yeah, exactly. The heat loss through your PVC, I’m sure, is significantly larger than Any heat gain. In fact, I probably could post the equations and show you that the heat gain by friction per unit foot of pipe is less than the heat loss by convection/conduction through the pipe and into your ambient.

Now, your water being heated by pumps themselves, that is a promise for sure. Pumps, motors in general, give lots of heat.

Which is a bummer. That means I'll need to invest in a chiller. Or if I can find a dc pump that will do the job with a 15 foot head height

 

[MarsRover]

Finding a pump won’t be a problem....affording the pump is another story.

And yes, IMHO a chiller and a heater are both must haves in this hobby unless you keep your tank in a deep basement where he temp stays relatively constant year round.....which from this thread does not sound like what you’re working with!

Chillers are relatively cheap. JBJs are nice. Just bite the bullet and get it and be done with it.

You’ve spent who knows how much to this point in setting up your system.....and I hate thinking about future cost of animal purchases down the road. Don’t cheap out now! The piece of mind knowing you have a chiller and a heater working in harmony is well worth the $500 or whatever you end up spending, when it’s compared to you **hopeing** that your house and tank stays in perfect thermodynamic homeostasis (I’m telling you right now, it won’t....)

 

[Shad Quill]

Finding a pump won’t be a problem....affording the pump is another story.

And yes, IMHO a chiller and a heater are both must haves in this hobby unless you keep your tank in a deep basement where he temp stays relatively constant year round.....which from this thread does not sound like what you’re working with!

Chillers are relatively cheap. JBJs are nice. Just bite the bullet and get it and be done with it.

You’ve spent who knows how much to this point in setting up your system.....and I hate thinking about future cost of animal purchases down the road. Don’t cheap out now! The piece of mind knowing you have a chiller and a heater working in harmony is well worth the $500 or whatever you end up spending, when it’s compared to you **hopeing** that your house and tank stays in perfect thermodynamic homeostasis (I’m telling you right now, it won’t....)

Ordered last night and just got off the phone with the electrician to pull another 15 amp circuit over to the room.