Heaters! Who knew!?

[Greybeard]

Which model of Bayite are you using?

BTC201.​

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KEYDNKK/

Why can't we post links to Amazon here? Oh well. You'll find it

It comes with a stainless temperature probe, which I won't put in my tank. I re-used the one I had from an Inkbird that came with a plastic coated temp probe. Worked just fine.

 

[Sleepydoc]

Red, it has to do with thermal conductivity. How conductive the materials used by Jager and Finnex are aren't known to me.
Glass is on average about 0.8 W/m K, but titanium can be around 17 W/m K, hence the need for larger Titanium heaters.

It's because glass is way more thermally conductive than titanium, so the same size heating element in titanium can't keep up with a glass heater.

This is great. I thought I was missing something, did not realize titanium is slower to heat than glass. I didn't want to switch them out to find out that the titanium heaters can't keep up and I kill everything. So, Glass is generally more efficient and capable of heating more faster. Titanium is safer from electrical disasters. That helps a lot. I think on top of marine biology, plumbing, and chemistry I now need a degree in thermal conductors.

How far are we away from having a astro physics or rocket science degree?

Greg P has it backwards - Titanium is more thermally conductive than glass resulting in more efficient transfer of heat to the water.

@ca1ore is mostly right - the energy does end up in your tank but having a better themal conductor makes the process more responsive. There are some external losses, so you’ll use slightly more energy with the less conductive material but not a huge difference. Like ca1ore said, there are many variables that play into the required heater wattage that charts are closer to useless. Factors I can think of off hand:

- ambient temperature
- aquarium material (acrylic, glass, plywood, etc)
- ambient humidity
- type of lighting (LED < fluorescent < halide)
- duration of lighting
- Other pumps/equipment
- whether the pumps are submerged or external

As you can imagine, a 120 gallon glass tank with LED lights running 8 hours per day and an external pump in a 68º room in MN during the winter (i.e. very dry air) Would need a whole lot more heating power than a 120 gallon acrylic tank with halide lights running 12 hours and a submerged pump in a 68º room in Louisiana.

I’ve always been of the opinion that several smaller heaters are better than one large one. If one fails in the ’on’ state it’s less likely to cause catastrophic overheating and/or give you more time to catch it. Likewise if one fails in the off position you still have the other(s) to keep the tank from getting critically cold.

 

[Gup]

Install gfci outlets to power all tank equipment. Add a grounding probe.. Then you and your fish are safe from shock.
Also, all the pumps in your tank add some heat while running, they are not 100% efficient.

I have always used GFI every Outlet around water. My tank, kitchen, bath & pool. It truly is an absolute to avoid killing someone or something

 

[Gup]

BTC201.​

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KEYDNKK/

Why can't we post links to Amazon here? Oh well. You'll find it

It comes with a stainless temperature probe, which I won't put in my tank. I re-used the one I had from an Inkbird that came with a plastic coated temp probe. Worked just fine.

I'm curious why you would not use a stainless steel probe in a saltwater tank.

I use 2 Cobalts, 1 just as insurance should 1 fail

 

[Dunc]

It all greatly depends on how cold the room the tank is in gets. I keep mine in the basement where during winter months it drops right below 60 at night. That's 18+ degree differential between room and desired tank temperature.

Ok, I re-read the question

I use Jager heaters because every one of the finnex failed on me. Surprisingly enough, I had one over a decade ago that worked for 6 years without skipping a beat, until I drained a sump without thinking the heater was still plugged it......dang what's that smell!?!?!?

I tried to like Finnex, but like your experience it failed me. In fact, two failed me. So no more of them. I’ve been using Cobalts and they have been doing great. But if you ask other people they hate Cobalt, so get some popcorn and grab a seat!

 

[KStatefan]

I'm curious why you would not use a stainless steel probe in a saltwater tank.

Because the stainless steel will corrode in saltwater

 

[Jeff Kohlmann]

I've looked at BRS, Marine Depot, Marine and Reef and I'm so confused by the heater ratings now. When I was setting my 350 gallon display + 75 gallon sump 3 years ago, heaters were the least of my concern. The LFS recommend two 300 watt Finnex heaters. I've had no issues maintaining my tank at 77 degrees, ambient room temperature is around 68 -70 degrees. So, I'm raising the tank between 7 and 10 degrees.

According to most recommendations, 2 300 watt heaters should be failing miserably at heating a tank of this size. The heaters turn off routinely and it takes a couple hours for the tank to drop enough for them to turn back on. I've actually had my tank stay normal temperature with 1 of the 300 watt heaters on it while I moved the other to my water change station and had it warm that up for 24 hours.

Yet, all the manufacturers say I should be running at least 1000 watt, if not 1200 watt heaters and I should spend $300-$500 in heaters and double my electricity usage to heat my tank?

That said, My heaters are approaching 2 years old. After a previous heater electrocuted my tank - leaked electricity from the sump to the display and kill 16 out of 19 fish, I swore I would replace my heaters every 2 years. This June will be the two year anniversary of my heater Armageddon. I was looking to replace with a titanium heating system. But, wasn't really looking to spend $300-$500. I spent around $50 a piece for the Finnex Heaters with attached controllers. I've had no issues. They were like champs. Just don't want to risk another electrocution incident.

Is there a safe, reliable, and economical brand of heaters? Or is this like asking the lighting question, everyone has their favorites and no one heater is amazing. And, also, what size is the right size for around 350 gallon water volume including sump, sand and rock displacement.

You’re supposed to ground your entire tank. Have you done that? I believe I saw just a few weeks ago this discussion here with an Amazon part number. I’ll do some searching

 

[Jeff Kohlmann]

You’re supposed to ground your entire tank. Have you done that? I believe I saw just a few weeks ago this discussion here with an Amazon part number. I’ll do some searching

Look up grounding cable in Amazon. There are several

 

[Oberst Hajj]

BTC201.​

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KEYDNKK/

Why can't we post links to Amazon here? Oh well. You'll find it

It comes with a stainless temperature probe, which I won't put in my tank. I re-used the one I had from an Inkbird that came with a plastic coated temp probe. Worked just fine.

Do you know if they make one that can control two heating elements? Or one with dual plugs that are ran from one setting?

 

[Sleepydoc]

Do you know if they make one that can control two heating elements? Or one with dual plugs that are ran from one setting?

something like this? https://www.homedepot.com/p/CyberPower-3-Outlet-Extender-GC301/313392930

The total capacity of any controller is ultimately determined by how many amps the relays and other circuitry can handle. As long as you're within those there's no reason you can't split the outlet.

There are combined heating/cooling controllers that you can use to run heaters and a chiller or fans.

 

[Oberst Hajj]

something like this? https://www.homedepot.com/p/CyberPower-3-Outlet-Extender-GC301/313392930

The total capacity of any controller is ultimately determined by how many amps the relays and other circuitry can handle. As long as you're within those there's no reason you can't split the outlet.

There are combined heating/cooling controllers that you can use to run heaters and a chiller or fans.

Thanks. I can't open the HD link at work, so I 'll check that one out when I get home this afternoon. I like that the Bayite controllers has its outlets built into it as opposed to the short corded ones like InkBird. But from what I could see on Amazon the Bayite are setup to control a heater and a cooler, so I could not use both outlets to run heaters.

 

[Treefer32]

So, two things, 1, is grounding the tank / sump. The owner of the LFS said he would never ever recommend a grounding probe. It hides problems, covers them until they can't be covered up anymore and something major / severe happens, whereas, without the grounding probe, problems can be discovered before something melts or burns down. I don't know the science. I'm not an electrician nor thermo conductive expert. But, the cons outweighed the pros in his opinion. So, I never bought into grounding probes as a solution.

Second, back to the main point... If two 300 watt glass heaters are heating my tank just fine and titanium is more efficient would it be safe to assume that two 350 watt titanium heaters would do just fine as well? The fish room is around 50% humidity according to dehumidifier. I run 3 LEDs and 4 T5HO bulbs. And the ATS is running A bunch of Red LED bulbs with heat sinks. No fans.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm not losing anything by going to a different brand. If 600 watts of heating works now it should work with other brands and heaters. I shouldn't be going backwards... In theory.

 

[slojim]

OP - the thumbrules are just starting points. If you have evidence that 300W is sufficient for your needs, then you can replace with 300W. It might change if you change your circulating pumps or lights or other heat sources. I unplug my heaters from about now until about October. If I look at the chart for 0 watts, then I don't have an aquarium! That can't be right - I'm not spending that $ on beer.

 

[Hooz]

I think the BRS titanium elements with external (InkBird) controller is probably about as good as it gets.

The elements have a longer service life and warranty because they don't contain any electronic controls. They just heat.

You can change out your InkBird ($45) every year if you want and still come out ahead.

I use the dual controller and 2x heating elements, each rated at half the wattage needed. If you need 300w, get dual 150w elements, etc.

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

For my 125, I have two cheap (can't even remember the brand) 200W heaters that I got a petco. I use my Apex to control them. I have done a lot of failure testing on my system. If both heaters and the Apex fail in the ON position, my tank temp maxes out at 82. If one or both heaters fail stuck ON, the Apex will catch it, so no issue. If one heater fails stuck OFF, the temp drops to about 75. If both heaters fail or the Apex fails in the OFF position, the temp drops to 70 (which the ambient temp of the room).

Below is normal condition with the Apex using the program below

Fallback ON
Set ON
If Temp > 77.4 Then OFF
Min Time 010:00 Then ON
Min Time 010:00 Then OFF

 

[Treefer32]

For my 125, I have two cheap (can't even remember the brand) 200W heaters that I got a petco. I use my Apex to control them. I have done a lot of failure testing on my system. If both heaters and the Apex fail in the ON position, my tank temp maxes out at 82. If one or both heaters fail stuck ON, the Apex will catch it, so no issue. If one heater fails stuck OFF, the temp drops to about 75. If both heaters fail or the Apex fails in the OFF position, the temp drops to 70 (which the ambient temp of the room).

Below is normal condition with the Apex using the program below

Fallback ON
Set ON
If Temp > 77.4 Then OFF
Min Time 010:00 Then ON
Min Time 010:00 Then OFF

One thing I'd recommend is to not use the apex on / off. The constant switching of their EB 8 outlet will wear it out. I used to do this too, but, an EB8 is an expensive piece of equipment to wear out with on off switching of heaters. I now use my heaters thermostat and have a wider range on my apex if a heater sticks on and it's own thermostat doesn't catch it my apex will shut down the heater outlets at 80 degrees. That's the only situation where the apex would shut off the outlet, otherwise the outlets are always on and the heater thermostats turn on and off based on their own temp readings. . . This gives redundancy as well and doesn't wear out the EB8 as fast.

 

[BZOFIQ]

One thing I'd recommend is to not use the apex on / off. The constant switching of their EB 8 outlet will wear it out. I used to do this too, but, an EB8 is an expensive piece of equipment to wear out with on off switching of heaters. I now use my heaters thermostat and have a wider range on my apex if a heater sticks on and it's own thermostat doesn't catch it my apex will shut down the heater outlets at 80 degrees. That's the only situation where the apex would shut off the outlet, otherwise the outlets are always on and the heater thermostats turn on and off based on their own temp readings. . . This gives redundancy as well and doesn't wear out the EB8 as fast.

This is absolutely a non-issue on outlets numbered 1,2,3, 5,6,7 on the EB8. I have 4 heaters "clicking" away for past decade without any issues - with .3 degree between on and off.

 

[Oberst Hajj]

I've been controlling my two heaters with an EB823 for going on four years now. No issues so far.

 

[Weasel1960]

Regarding the heaters if it’s working well for you why change it. Just like everything else in this hobby, each install has slightly different variables that affect the outcome. Maybe your lighting load or heat gain from pumps are helping you out on your heaters. If it aint broke don’t tinker, just replace.

 

[Sleepydoc]

This is absolutely a non-issue on outlets numbered 1,2,3, 5,6,7 on the EB8. I have 4 heaters "clicking" away for past decade without any issues - with .3 degree between on and off.

Agreed. There are several advantages to using the Apex rather than a heater thermostat.

First, heater thermostats are notorious for failing. I use the higher quality relay in my apex so the only ’wear and tear’ on my heaters is from the element heating up and cooling off, significantly extending their life.
Second, if you have more than one heater, it’s nearly impossible to get the thermostats calibrated and synchronized.
Finally, the Apex will have a much tighter control over the tank temp than most heaters are capable of achieving.

I understand the concern of causing the apex to wear out, but based on a large body of combined experience it really isn’t an issue.