Heavy breathing weird behavior. Can’t identify!

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Also he breaths so much heavier after feeding. This video he got some mysis right before and is now eating his nori and selcon.

Does the tank have good aeration? Not just circulation, but actual bubbles breaking the water's surface? Protein skimmers usually suffice for that, but adding aeration can only help. What is the pH of the tank first thing in the morning, before the lights come on?

Jay

 

[b0bburg3r]

Does the tank have good aeration? Not just circulation, but actual bubbles breaking the water's surface? Protein skimmers usually suffice for that, but adding aeration can only help. What is the pH of the tank first thing in the morning, before the lights come on?

Jay

Ph 7.9. Aerator has been running in the aio sump. No protein skimmer.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Ph 7.9. Aerator has been running in the aio sump. No protein skimmer.

That pH is a bit low. You can try adding aeration to the tank itself and see if it rises a few points. A pH of 7.9 isn't harmful by itself, but if it is an indicator of high carbon dioxide, then that is a problem. Another way to test this is to measure the Ph of the tank, then remove a gallon of tank water and aerate it heavily for 6 hours. If the pH rises, that indicates a CO2 issue.

Jay

 

[b0bburg3r]

That pH is a bit low. You can try adding aeration to the tank itself and see if it rises a few points. A pH of 7.9 isn't harmful by itself, but if it is an indicator of high carbon dioxide, then that is a problem. Another way to test this is to measure the Ph of the tank, then remove a gallon of tank water and aerate it heavily for 6 hours. If the pH rises, that indicates a CO2 issue.

Jay

I will do that tonight.

 

[b0bburg3r]

That pH is a bit low. You can try adding aeration to the tank itself and see if it rises a few points. A pH of 7.9 isn't harmful by itself, but if it is an indicator of high carbon dioxide, then that is a problem. Another way to test this is to measure the Ph of the tank, then remove a gallon of tank water and aerate it heavily for 6 hours. If the pH rises, that indicates a CO2 issue.

Jay

No change of pH after 12 hours of aerating the gallon of water. I did add a protein skimmer to the tank the tank has good surface agitation an air stone in the rear sump and now added a protein skimmer. No change to breathing. I changed up his food to see if that was possibly it has breathing doubles after feeding and the same result occurred.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

No change of pH after 12 hours of aerating the gallon of water. I did add a protein skimmer to the tank the tank has good surface agitation an air stone in the rear sump and now added a protein skimmer. No change to breathing. I changed up his food to see if that was possibly it has breathing doubles after feeding and the same result occurred.

Good - you can rule out gas exchange issues. I scanned this thread and didn't see it - what is the tank temperature?

The tang looks really good in all other respects, so I'm trying to land on a non-disease, non acute cause for this.

Jay

 

[b0bburg3r]

Good - you can rule out gas exchange issues. I scanned this thread and didn't see it - what is the tank temperature?

The tang looks really good in all other respects, so I'm trying to land on a non-disease, non acute cause for this.

Jay

Tank is set to 78 with an ink bird and verified to the best of my ability with two other thermometers one being my Hanna Salinity checker.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Tank is set to 78 with an ink bird and verified to the best of my ability with two other thermometers one being my Hanna Salinity checker.

Well, I’ve run out of ideas. If it was breathing less than 150 bpm I’d say don’t worry about it, but 150 is my sort of arbitrary cut off between high normal for small fish and some disease process.
Jay

 

[b0bburg3r]

Well, I’ve run out of ideas. If it was breathing less than 150 bpm I’d say don’t worry about it, but 150 is my sort of arbitrary cut off between high normal for small fish and some disease process.
Jay

Thank you so much Jay I really appreciate that you take time out of your day to help others! I would love to send you a gift or some cash for the efforts!

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thank you so much Jay I really appreciate that you take time out of your day to help others! I would love to send you a gift or some cash for the efforts!

Thanks, but no need. Just pay it forward by being active here on R2R!
Jay

 

[b0bburg3r]

Well, I’ve run out of ideas. If it was breathing less than 150 bpm I’d say don’t worry about it, but 150 is my sort of arbitrary cut off between high normal for small fish and some disease process.
Jay

Jay if you have the time I do have some more information as this is still not resolved. I do get crazy amount of bacteria growing in my sumps and glass. After thinking about it the longer the lights are on the heavier the breathing. Running an oversized UV sterilizer ATM. My protein skimmer kept overflowing even at 1/4 the recommended water level. Tank is stinky. I’m assuming this is a bacterial bloom. I have done big water changes and more and can’t get it to go away. What really is the best course of action then. I also change my filters every day at this point.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Jay if you have the time I do have some more information as this is still not resolved. I do get crazy amount of bacteria growing in my sumps and glass. After thinking about it the longer the lights are on the heavier the breathing. Running an oversized UV sterilizer ATM. My protein skimmer kept overflowing even at 1/4 the recommended water level. Tank is stinky. I’m assuming this is a bacterial bloom. I have done big water changes and more and can’t get it to go away. What really is the best course of action then. I also change my filters every day at this point.

Have you confirmed the growing material is bacteria and not algae?
The smell is usually a sign of bacterial decomposition, but one person’s stink is another persons normal (grin).
If it is bacteria, it is feeding on some organic material - excess food, other carbon source? As you noted, UV sterilizers only kill free floating bacteria, not those growing on surfaces.
Is this something that would show up in a photo?
Jay

 

[b0bburg3r]

Have you confirmed the growing material is bacteria and not algae?
The smell is usually a sign of bacterial decomposition, but one person’s stink is another persons normal (grin).
If it is bacteria, it is feeding on some organic material - excess food, other carbon source? As you noted, UV sterilizers only kill free floating bacteria, not those growing on surfaces.
Is this something that would show up in a photo?
Jay

I would have a photo if I didn’t drain my AIO and clean. It has chunky and when clumped up on the scraper it was red/brown slime. After cleaning and a 30% water change the fish is no better. I did the cleaning late in the night as an emergency as the tang was breathing heavier than before. Phosphate was high at 0.08 before the water change.

 

[b0bburg3r]

Update: No improvement in breathing.

 

[b0bburg3r]

Still confused but I did clean out a ton of this stuff. On the bottom of my AIO sump there was hundreds of chunks of white stuff and slime absolutely coating the tubes of my pumps output. Idk what this is and have spent all day trying to figure it out. After cleaning tons of it out the fish seem better. I did notice right before I did this my file fish was breathing heavy and now is fine. Does any one have an idea of what would grow so aggressively in my pump and tubing? And what the white chunks would be?

 

[Idech]

Still confused but I did clean out a ton of this stuff. On the bottom of my AIO sump there was hundreds of chunks of white stuff and slime absolutely coating the tubes of my pumps output. Idk what this is and have spent all day trying to figure it out. After cleaning tons of it out the fish seem better. I did notice right before I did this my file fish was breathing heavy and now is fine. Does any one have an idea of what would grow so aggressively in my pump and tubing? And what the white chunks would be?

Do you feed frozen ? It could be food particles that were decomposing and creating high ammonia levels, making it hard to breathe for the fish.

 

[b0bburg3r]

Do you feed frozen ? It could be food particles that were decomposing and creating high ammonia levels, making it hard to breathe for the fish.

Ammonia is tested daily and undetectable. I’m pretty sure it this slime I’m guessing some sort of bacteria.

 

[b0bburg3r]

This is the color of what I whipped off

 

[b0bburg3r]

@Jay Hemdal other fish now a breathing heavy. Water is extremely cloudy. Gets worse when I do a water change. I have tried to leave it and it gets worse. Wondering if it’s a bacterial bloom or something else. The water under natural light definitely has a green tinge to it. UV does nothing even after running an oversized unit for a week. Peroxide seems to have helped breathing when dosed. Sorry to tag you I just don’t want to lose live stock. I don’t like seeing them stressed. I did end up cleaning the whole rear filtration area and that seemed to help temporarily.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

@Jay Hemdal other fish now a breathing heavy. Water is extremely cloudy. Gets worse when I do a water change. I have tried to leave it and it gets worse. Wondering if it’s a bacterial bloom or something else. The water under natural light definitely has a green tinge to it. UV does nothing even after running an oversized unit for a week. Peroxide seems to have helped breathing when dosed. Sorry to tag you I just don’t want to lose live stock. I don’t like seeing them stressed. I did end up cleaning the whole rear filtration area and that seemed to help temporarily.

I really don't know what's going on here. White cloudiness and material growing on surfaces is often heterotrophic bacteria. These feed on organic material and that lowers the dissolved oxygen levels. The usual cause of this is over feeding. If the tank has sufficient nitrifying bacteria, you won't see a rise in ammonia. Making sure there is no uneaten food, and then siphoning out this material as it forms is the best way to control that issue.

Jay