Hello! A Few Questions About Plumbing and Sumps

[jadwv2210]

First off I would like to say hello to everyone since this is my first post!

Now that's out of the way let's get down to business.

I picked up a 40G breeder a couple of days ago and plan to use it as my DT. I was also lucky enough to get a 29G for free from a co-worker that I will be using as a sump. One man's trash right?

My plan for an overflow in the DT is to do a Herbie-style overflow with 3/4" bulkheads with soft tubing down to the sump. I was wondering if this will handle enough flow for the system if I use a return pump that does about 500GPH at the head pressure I will be using. Is this too much flow for this system or just about right?

For the sump I don't plan on putting any baffles in at the moment. I will be using one of the filter sock attachments which hang onto the sump and running my main line into it and the emergency overflow straight into the sump. Will I see any major issues from not putting baffles into my sump?

And my last question is about a skimmer. What skimmer would be recommended for this proposed system? I know that I need one that is rated for about twice my water volume but there are so many skimmers to choose from and I recently read about making sure the skimmer pump has more throughput than my return pump so that the skimmer can function properly. Some broad suggestions on size are fine here or you can be as specific as you like!

This is my first SW tank ever and the only other tanks I've had were FW ones as a child so I'm very excited to get started. I plan on keeping hardy beginner fish like clowns and such and easy to keep corals. If you need any more information I'm glad to post it.

Thanks everyone for the help!

 

[bobman]

I would personally use 1" bulkheads but you should be fine with 3/4". If you run a skimmer (recommended) I would but a bubble trap before the return. Assuming you are not running a refugium then you should be fine with just a bubble trap. If you decided to go fuge you can always add a baffle later.

As for a skimmer get the best one your budget will allow. I am a fan of reef octo but there are far better skimmers though.

 

[redfishbluefish]

I'm not overly familiar with Herbies, but if I'm not mistaken, don't they have at least two drains to the sump.....with an emergency drain....or am I thinking of another overflow design.

Anyway, a typical 3/4 inch pipe will allow about 330 gallons per hour by simple gravitational drop. Note this changes with elbows and horizontal lengths. I'm talking straight drop to the sump. If you use 1 inch, we're now talking about 600 gph.

 

[jadwv2210]

I would personally use 1" bulkheads but you should be fine with 3/4". If you run a skimmer (recommended) I would but a bubble trap before the return. Assuming you are not running a refugium then you should be fine with just a bubble trap. If you decided to go fuge you can always add a baffle later.

As for a skimmer get the best one your budget will allow. I am a fan of reef octo but there are far better skimmers though.

I am definitely going to run a skimmer and have no plans for a fuge at this time, but I'm sure that will change eventually so I'd like to leave the door open. I've looked at many skimmers recently and the Reef Octopus ones seem like a brand within my budget and also with sizes that apply to this system. For the bubble trap, would I just place baffles so that the water runs under one over one and then under a final baffle?

I'm not overly familiar with Herbies, but if I'm not mistaken, don't they have at least two drains to the sump.....with an emergency drain....or am I thinking of another overflow design.

Anyway, a typical 3/4 inch pipe will allow about 330 gallons per hour by simple gravitational drop. Note this changes with elbows and horizontal lengths. I'm talking straight drop to the sump. If you use 1 inch, we're now talking about 600 gph.

If I'm not mistaken, a Herbie overflow has two drains, one being tuned to a full siphon and the second as a straight drain that sets your water level and acts as an emergency overflow in case the first one clogs. I could be completely wrong about this though lol.

By the sounds of it I will definitely be changing my plans to incorporate 1 inch drain lines instead of 3/4 inch.

 

[TaylorPilot]

+1 on the 1" drains. It isn't a problem with the drains capacity to handle the flow. The problem is that if you use the 2nd drain as an open drain that will see flow under normal use, a 3/4" won't handle almost any flow without making noise. A 1" drain will be able to handle more water before the water beings to create flushing noises. There is no downside to the larger drain, especially if you haven't already drilled the tank or installed bulkheads. What type of valve are you going to use on the siphon. Most people would suggest a gate valve over a ball valve.

 

[jadwv2210]

+1 on the 1" drains. It isn't a problem with the drains capacity to handle the flow. The problem is that if you use the 2nd drain as an open drain that will see flow under normal use, a 3/4" won't handle almost any flow without making noise. A 1" drain will be able to handle more water before the water beings to create flushing noises. There is no downside to the larger drain, especially if you haven't already drilled the tank or installed bulkheads. What type of valve are you going to use on the siphon. Most people would suggest a gate valve over a ball valve.

Luckily I was still planning my plumbing out so no holes have been drilled yet. For the siphon I was going to incorporate a gate valve as I believe this would give me greater control over the flow of water. Since I haven't drilled holes or purchased any plumbing yet, would it be advisable to use an even larger diameter pipe for the plumbing? Also, should I stick to the 1" for the return or enlarge it as well?

Is it true that the pump on my skimmer must be equal to or greater than the overall flow rate of my return pump?

 

[TaylorPilot]

I don't know if it is all that important. I guess the logic is that you will decrease effectiveness if the skimmer is reusing the same water twice. Although allot of the larger skimmers recirculate the water on purpose, so I don't know. Logically it makes sense, but in reality, I doubt it makes that big of a difference. Although there are other advantages and disadvantages to running different flow rates. I just wrote down some of my thoughts of flow rates on another thread. Just search my started threads and you should find it.

 

[hybridazn]

Welcome to r2r!

I recommend doing a bubble trap after your skimmer. Chances are micro bubbles will leave the skimmer and go up into the display without the trap. Just put one baffle so water runs over the top, second baffle up slightly off the bottom of the sump then a third with water running over the top.

 

[TaylorPilot]

Also, check out Melev's site. He has allot of information on different sump designs, has a Youtube page showing his tanks and allot of info on doing acrylic work. He is also a sponsor on R2R.

http://melevsreef.com/category/articles/acrylics/sump-designs

 

[jadwv2210]

I checked out your previous posts TaylorPilot and there is a lot of really good information in them. I think I am going to do 1 1/2 inch drain lines and a 1 1/2 inch return at a rate of about 600GPH. I have also decided that I will add some acrylic baffles to my sump anyway and maybe even do a refugium earlier than planned. Thanks so much for all the help everyone.

 

[TaylorPilot]

Don't do that large of a line on your siphon. It won't have enough velocity to purge the air. Use a 1" on the siphon and a 1.5" on the open channel. It will perform good! I think 600 will be good. Also, make sure your siphon line exits about 1" below the water level in your sump. It you put it down any lower than that, it will have trouble purging. You should sketch it all out once you decide on a setup and we can help ya look it over for anything that stands out to us.

 

[craigscustoms]

This post is not necessarily confined to just the sump but plumbing to the sump from the tank itself.I'm fairly new to having a sump on the bottom. I have a 300 gallon 8 foot long tank with two 12 inch wide by 20 inch deep exterior overflows with 2" PVC and bulkheads. Any comments,thoughts and ideas would gladly be taken in as I'm just starting to plum as you can see in the picture. I'm so excited to get to this point in my build after finally getting this beast in the wall. The sump is a 90 gallon that I plan to fill with live rock and holds a very large lifereef skimmer. The return pump is a Mag Drive 2400 going directly back into the tank. I will also be adding a smaller Mag Drive into the sump that is plum to a 55 gallon refugium that will hold some mangroves and cheeto that will be plumbed back to the sump towards the live rock side right before the return pump.