Hello me diagnose my purple tang

PranK · Nov 13, 2021

Hi guys,

My purple tang has had a rough few months and is one of only a few survivors from a tank crash. Add to that a few tank moves and new Aquascape and he's not exactly been "settled".

About a week ago I noticed a cloudy eye but nothing else and he's been scuffling a little with a fox face so I assumed he'd bumped it or scraped it.

A few days later and his sides started looking roughed up like somebody had taken some 80 grit to him. The Fox face had a few white spots at the same time.

Anyway we're now a week down the road and a week with polyp lab medic and he still looks scuffed. The Fox face looks almost perfect now.

I've only once seen the tang scratching itself on the same and he is super active and eating lots. There's already lots of garlic in his diet.

Anyway here's a pic. Any help would be great. Thanks in advance.

PranK · Nov 13, 2021

Another good shot from rear quarter.

Jay Hemdal · Nov 13, 2021

PranK said:
Another good shot from rear quarter.

It looks like both eyes are cloudy. With the timing of all that, plus the scuff marks on the body, the scratching and the fish still feeding, flukes come immediately to mind.

Do you have access to Prazipro or other praziquantel drug?

Jay

PranK · Nov 13, 2021

Thanks Jay, yes I do have some from a previous case. I'll dose and report back.

Thanks again.

DrZoidburg · Nov 13, 2021

@PranK Do you see and symptoms like heavy breathing, acting shy, swimming into flows, or anything odd for that matter? Is it eating still? Also maybe picture of foxface. @Jay Hemdal Does this look like velvet? Aside from lack of symptoms it could also look like psoriasis. Maybe skin reaction to polyp lab medic?

Jay Hemdal · Nov 14, 2021

DrZoidburg said:
@PranK Do you see and symptoms like heavy breathing, acting shy, swimming into flows, or anything odd for that matter? Is it eating still? Also maybe picture of foxface. @Jay Hemdal Does this look like velvet? Aside from lack of symptoms it could also look like psoriasis. Maybe skin reaction to polyp lab medic?

The fish still feeding tends to preclude velvet, but maybe? As I read it, the Medic was added after the skin lesions, did I read it wrong?
Jay

DrZoidburg · Nov 14, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
The fish still feeding tends to preclude velvet, but maybe? As I read it, the Medic was added after the skin lesions, did I read it wrong?
Jay

PranK said:
About a week ago I noticed a cloudy eye but nothing else

PranK said:
Anyway we're now a week down the road and a week with polyp lab medic

I guess tang was in this treatment for sometime. Maybe a few days before it showed this.

PranK · Nov 14, 2021

Hi Guys,
Apologies for the confusion. Medic wasn't started till after the symptoms were visible.
He swims fine and eats fine. No problems there. I've seen him once scratch himself on the sand, but thats it. If it wasn't for his appearance I'd say he is behaving perfectly fine.

Dosed Prazi yesterday, water is very cloudy today but the purple tang I *think* is looking better.

Given instructions on the bottle I'll do a 25% water change tomorrow, drop the carbon back in and turn my skimmer back on. I still have 3 days of Medic course to apply. And I'll do another Prazi course next Monday.

Jay Hemdal · Nov 15, 2021

PranK said:
Hi Guys,
Apologies for the confusion. Medic wasn't started till after the symptoms were visible.
He swims fine and eats fine. No problems there. I've seen him once scratch himself on the sand, but thats it. If it wasn't for his appearance I'd say he is behaving perfectly fine.

Dosed Prazi yesterday, water is very cloudy today but the purple tang I *think* is looking better.

Given instructions on the bottle I'll do a 25% water change tomorrow, drop the carbon back in and turn my skimmer back on. I still have 3 days of Medic course to apply. And I'll do another Prazi course next Monday.

Just be sure to aerate the water well during prazi treatments.

Jay

PranK · Nov 18, 2021

Hi guys,
So I did a flukes treatment, followed up with a big water change and added fresh carbon. It's been a day since that and the tang looks slightly better but the Fox face today looks terrible!

Melanarus wrasse and my Blenny appear to be fine.

No food being consumed by the affected pair. Both just hiding out and not swimming at all.

Pic of Fox face. (Note it's not uncommon for him to be pale. He changes colour and intensity a lot).

PranK · Nov 18, 2021

Another

PranK · Nov 18, 2021

I'm wondering if I should run another course of Medic. I think I might have had some carbon running with the last course.

ReefRondo · Nov 18, 2021

I in no way mean to be a party pooper but I have tried medic on a number of occasions with absolutely zero effect. Very expensive for something that for me didn’t work. Do we have an answer to what this is yet? I’m not sure to be honest.

PranK · Nov 18, 2021

ReefRondo said:
I in no way mean to be a party pooper but I have tried medic on a number of occasions with absolutely zero effect. Very expensive for something that for me didn’t work. Do we have an answer to what this is yet? I’m not sure to be honest.

Yeah there's definitely mixed opinions.

There were suggestions in here that it was flukes. I'm sitting by the tank now and I do think they are more active today though still ignoring the Nori clip.

Purples' eyes seem to have lost some of the cloudiness.

From my reading they will look worse before they look better and the latter could take a week. I'm planning on kicking off another prazi treatment on Sunday.

Jay Hemdal · Nov 18, 2021

PranK said:
Yeah there's definitely mixed opinions.

There were suggestions in here that it was flukes. I'm sitting by the tank now and I do think they are more active today though still ignoring the Nori clip.

Purples' eyes seem to have lost some of the cloudiness.

From my reading they will look worse before they look better and the latter could take a week. I'm planning on kicking off another prazi treatment on Sunday.

I would skip the medic, I just don't see it being of any benefit.

You're correct that in severe flukes infestations, the fish will look worse (and may even die) after the treatment, as the flukes drop off, leaving tiny holes in the fish's skin. These can cause the fish to bleed out, or allow for secondary bacterial infection to take place. However, NOT treating for flukes will also end in death, so you need to forge ahead here I think.

If I'm following this correctly, the fish stopped feeding - that is definitely not a good sign. Do you see any rapid breathing? Can you post a short video?

Jay

PranK · Nov 18, 2021

Hi Jay, the time difference between us is very obvious at the moment. Its a good 24hrs between our replies.

The fox face is definitely breathing very quickly. No real difference this morning but lights weren't on when I left. I did notice the purple was out and about this morning so behaviour is much better. That being said, I did notice the fox face out too, not overly active but not in its hiding spot.

No nori taken last night so still neither are eating.

I'll take a video when I get home and upload. I'll skip the medic and continue with Prazi on Sunday.

Note we do not have Prazipro here (we can import it but its very expensive) but my medication is 100% praziquantel anyway. Just thought it might be worth noting.

Jay Hemdal · Nov 18, 2021

PranK said:
Hi Jay, the time difference between us is very obvious at the moment. Its a good 24hrs between our replies.

The fox face is definitely breathing very quickly. No real difference this morning but lights weren't on when I left. I did notice the purple was out and about this morning so behaviour is much better. That being said, I did notice the fox face out too, not overly active but not in its hiding spot.

No nori taken last night so still neither are eating.

I'll take a video when I get home and upload. I'll skip the medic and continue with Prazi on Sunday.

Note we do not have Prazipro here (we can import it but its very expensive) but my medication is 100% praziquantel anyway. Just thought it might be worth noting.

With 100% praziquantel, the poor solubility is the biggest issue. Without the solvent that Prazipro has, pure prazi needs to be added very specifically - I use as fine brine shrimp net, or even pantyhose, to express it out into the water for each treatment. I hold it in the net/mesh and express it through that, out into the tank, while washing the material back and forth.

Yes - the time delay is a big issue! Reef2Reef has a huge international following. I'm often at odds with the time differences! I often reply to a European post, but not until after they are asleep. For Australia, things are what, 15 hours different, plus a day? I'm a member of the Zoological Association Of Australasia, and I have a terrible time communicating with them in real time....sorry!

Jay

PranK · Nov 18, 2021

Oh please don't be sorry I'm so grateful to have the assistance!

This is the medication I have been using and followed the instructions to the letter.

Blue Planet Fluke and Tape Worm - 25 Tablets

The Tech Den Australia is your shop for aquarium supplies & fish food including Blue Planet Fluke and Tape Worm - 25 Tablets. Fluke and Tapeworm aids in the treatment of Fluke and Tapeworm, contains Praziquantel. Enjoy fast flat rate shipping. Orders ship in 1-2 days.

www.thetechden.com.au

DrZoidburg · Nov 18, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
poor solubility

About 400mg/L I think. Those pills above have 100mg. Maybe could speed this up prior using a slight amount of heat. I.e. crushing put in a beaker, and a hotplate. Possible in stainless steel and on stove top likely. Doing it this way I would use 2 pans like a chocolate boiler. Then let cool. Maybe use fairly pure vodka to dissolve. I figure with this brand its 18.93 mg/gallon. 1 pill for 5.28 gallons.