HELP: 45 days and still taking over my tank.

[johnbr]

Clean Up Crew @Idoc gave excellent examples of the little critters you need to help with your algae

How many of each should I buy? 5 of each? or 20 of the same?

Thanks

 

[JoshH]

How many of each should I buy? 5 of each? or 20 of the same?

Thanks

I would start light, 1-2 of each and see how well they work first.

 

[johnbr]

I would start light, 1-2 of each and see how well they work first.

Are those all snails or some are crabs? Since I currently have 5 hermits could they kill each other in such a small tank?

Thanks

 

[JoshH]

Those are all snails, given you have hermits I would suggest buying some loose shells so your hermits as they grow can replace there shells without killing a snail for it.

 

[Holy_makerel]

They're all snail species.

For nitrates possibly look into vinegar dosing. It provides organic carbon for a specific group of bacteria to convert no3 to nitrogen gas which will diffuse out if the tank. I dose kalkwasser with 20ml vinegar/gallon @450ml a day via a dose pump into my 60 cube with 9 fish to keep my nitrates under control.

Works very well for me but I'll advise to go slow and monitor your nitrates. As said above you don't want a zero reading. Been there and my corals struggled.

You might start with 0.5ml/day for a week or two and see how it does. Adjust from there no more than 0.5ml/week(you could probably do more but slow and steady is better)

 

[Idoc]

They're all snail species.

For nitrates possibly look into vinegar dosing. It provides organic carbon for a specific group of bacteria to convert no3 to nitrogen gas which will diffuse out if the tank. I dose kalkwasser with 20ml vinegar/gallon @450ml a day via a dose pump into my 60 cube with 9 fish to keep my nitrates under control.

Works very well for me but I'll advise to go slow and monitor your nitrates. As said above you don't want a zero reading. Been there and my corals struggled.

You might start with 0.5ml/day for a week or two and see how it does. Adjust from there no more than 0.5ml/week(you could probably do more but slow and steady is better)

Honestly, he's pretty new to reefing. I might suggest just doing water changes as the simple answer to control the nitrates first. Dosing can be simple if you are used to doing it, but confusing to someone who is still learning all the correlations and interactions between systems in a reef.

 

[Idoc]

How many of each should I buy? 5 of each? or 20 of the same?

Thanks

I'd recommend maybe 5 cerith and 5 nerite or trochus snails to start. Ordering 5 will allow for any that die soon after intro to your system. Astraea are good work horses at eating algae, but you have to watch them. They can't flip themselves over if they fall upside down...thus becoming easy prey for the hermits if you don't get to them first.

 

[johnbr]

Honestly, he's pretty new to reefing. I might suggest just doing water changes as the simple answer to control the nitrates first. Dosing can be simple if you are used to doing it, but confusing to someone who is still learning all the correlations and interactions between systems in a reef.

I'd recommend maybe 5 cerith and 5 nerite or trochus snails to start. Ordering 5 will allow for any that die soon after intro to your system. Astraea are good work horses at eating algae, but you have to watch them. They can't flip themselves over if they fall upside down...thus becoming easy prey for the hermits if you don't get to them first.

Exactly. So how often should I do the water change? 5 gallon / week? Will buy them tomorrow at world wide corals.

They're all snail species.

For nitrates possibly look into vinegar dosing. It provides organic carbon for a specific group of bacteria to convert no3 to nitrogen gas which will diffuse out if the tank. I dose kalkwasser with 20ml vinegar/gallon @450ml a day via a dose pump into my 60 cube with 9 fish to keep my nitrates under control.

Works very well for me but I'll advise to go slow and monitor your nitrates. As said above you don't want a zero reading. Been there and my corals struggled.

You might start with 0.5ml/day for a week or two and see how it does. Adjust from there no more than 0.5ml/week(you could probably do more but slow and steady is better)

Since I'm really new to this hobby this seemed kinda hard to me.

 

[Idoc]

Exactly. So how often should I do the water change? 5 gallon / week? Will buy them tomorrow at world wide corals.

5 gallons a week would be about 20%...that should be sufficient to maintain your nitrates around 10ppm after a few weeks.
But honestly, the tank really looks good and the corals really look healthy! There's always going to be some algae, but the CUC will help to keep it from becoming unsightly...hopefully!

 

[mcarroll]

PHOSPHATES - 0

Doh!

What are you trying to get rid of

By the look of it – his phosphates!

No snails just 5 hermits and they seemed to vanish from the tank.

The smell. The disappearing CUC. The bubbles in the algae. The 0 phosphates.

If were also doing carbon dosing and started the tank with dead rock, we could jump straight to a dino diagnosis. (Let me know if those apply.)

Even so, you need to get PO4 up – when you do your nitrates will start being used up on their own...and the algae will probably go away along with the smell.

You might go through a "cycle" where you get phases of hair and/or cyano after this.....just deal with it like a phase, don't fight it. I.e. make sure you're doing the basics correct....especially having enough flow and CUC to keep detritus from adding to any problems.

Also remember that you're on the CUC. When algae gets out of the normal CUC's control, you have to step in with the toothbrush and scraper....and if flow isn't cutting it you'll need to add a powerhead and gravel vac to blast and clean the rocks and sand out.

Last, remember to avoid any and all nutrient instability to keep algae under control. It has less to do with nutrient levels than it has to do with big changes.

 

[mcarroll]

Oh....I'd begin running activated carbon right now just in case.

The smell and PO4 level points to dino's ...and dino's are toxic to CUC and humans.

DON'T MESS AROUND HERE....get some activated carbon going.

1/4 dose – change it weekly instead of monthly.

 

[mcarroll]

At least until you can rule out dino's maybe start doing some reading on the first post here:
Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

 

[brandon429]

Are you going to be able to fix revs tank with that link M.

 

[johnbr]

Guys,

Added 10 snails and today did a HUGE clean in the tank and took all the parameters.

Here are they:

Phosphates - Still 0.00 (Hanna Checker)
Nitrates - Between 10-20
Alkalinity - 9.4 (Hanna Checker)
PH - 7.9-8.0

Is my ALK to high? Also I had to scrub the rocks since the snails can't keep up. Corals seems stressed out. At this point I'm lost since I think the parameters aren't really that bad.

 

[brandon429]

does your sandbed pass a drop test

meaning if you reach in and grab sand, and drop it, does a massive cloud result

if so, how deep was your recent clean

Lower your lighting to simulate a cloudy day before all adjusts here, ramp back overnight couple days. Be creative on that

Reducing light stress is a big hedge until you choose a method, you are currently mixing methods possibly and this is unideal.

 

[johnbr]

does your sandbed pass a drop test

meaning if you reach in and grab sand, and drop it, does a massive cloud result

if so, how deep was your recent clean

Lower your lighting to simulate a cloudy day before all adjusts here, ramp back overnight couple days. Be creative on that

Reducing light stress is a big hedge until you choose a method, you are currently mixing methods possibly and this is unideal.

Just moved the sand and yes there's some dust coming out of it. I have no clue have to play with my lights brandon.

I have the lights pretty much all blues and 20% uv's (3% green, 3% red, 10% white) for only 2 hours and then blues and uv's again.

 

[brandon429]

That's quite good it's the heavy white that stresses until things balance, raising up lighting higher or inserting deflecting plastic rods or dowels kit is another option in other tanks enduring similar challenges

Production level lighting is not indicated in stress events it's a bleacher, bluer is safer. Less intensity is most ideal

The method of having a sandbed that passes a drop test and hand guiding algae off the rocks specifically, until maturation and coralline takes over vs taking action on the entire tank, corals included, is very powerful for nano reefs and even large reefs with accessible aquascapes

You have ways to test a single rock for compliance just by lifting them out to clean vs whole tank methods, you made an accessible aquascape, that's rare.

 

[Fourstars]

Tank looks good to me., just keep doing what you're doing and give it some time.

 

[johnbr]

That's quite good it's the heavy white that stresses until things balance, raising up lighting higher or inserting deflecting plastic rods or dowels kit be another option in other tanks enduring similar challenges

Production level lighting is not indicated in stress events it's a bleacher, bluer is safer. Less intensity is most ideal

thanks I'll keep doing it and see what happens.

 

[ihavecrabs]

@johnbr you are doing good my man. I wouldn't stress too much.

@mcarroll had some great points.. You are part of the CUC so daily scrubbing of trouble spots isn't extreme by any means (although one you see it improve, give it some rest.. hands in the tank are never a great thing) and secondly getting some GAC (granulated activated carbon) running in case of dinos.

Other than the above, I would focus on getting your PO4 and Nitrate in balance. You can choose to dose PO4 if you like and in your case I might recommend it due to your nitrates already being high. Seachem Flourish is an inexpensive option.

Just don't do what (almost) every newer reefer does... Dose without testing. Test your nitrates and your phosphates religiously while running your GAC and dosing Phosphates. Once things are balanced, you can back off testing to weekly once you feel you have a handle on it.

Shoot for:
NO3: 2-10ppm
PO4: 0.02 - 0.08 (0.08 is typically higher than most want to go with, but since you have mostly LPS and Softies, they prefer a little dirtier water.. SPS, closer to 0.02-0.04)

Also, are you using the Hanna Phosphate or Phosphorus test kit?