Help - Alk dosing seems off

[JCOLE]

Hello everyone,

I have used Kalkwasser for a while now but wanted to switch to 2 part for more control.

I didn't dose anything and watched my Alk everyday for a week. It consistently dropped .10 every day. I am using Seschem Reef Fusion 2 for Alk. I used their calculator to dose .10 everyday. For some reason though it seems to climb .10 every day instead of stabilizing. Does it take a little bit or is the change instant?

I am dosing 2ml every 2 hours from 1am to 11am.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Have you tried just cutting the dose down, maybe even in half to see if that becomes more stable?
What alk level are you trying to maintain?
What test kit are you using?

Dosing any alk products should raise you alk level almost instantly. But you want to give any big dose time to get mixed through the entire system.

 

[JCOLE]

Have you tried just cutting the dose down, maybe even in half to see if that becomes more stable?
What alk level are you trying to maintain?
What test kit are you using?

Dosing any alk products should raise you alk level almost instantly. But you want to give any big dose time to get mixed through the entire system.

That was my next option to start with half the dose.

I use the Hanna Checker dKH. I want to keep it around the lower 9's if possible. I found a great article last night on 2-part and it seems I am starting out wrong to begin with.

For starts I need to test my Salt mix to get those levels and adjust my tank to meet those parameters. Second, I haven't been dosing Calcium. After reading I realized that this is essential for balancing out the tank.

Also, the article said that I should be dosing equal amounts of both Alk and Calcium. Is this correct? Only curious because Seachems Fusion calculator gives different ML doses for each. Is this because it takes a different dose of each to provide equal quantities?

 

[Ron Reefman]

That was my next option to start with half the dose.

I use the Hanna Checker dKH. I want to keep it around the lower 9's if possible. I found a great article last night on 2-part and it seems I am starting out wrong to begin with.

For starts I need to test my Salt mix to get those levels and adjust my tank to meet those parameters. Second, I haven't been dosing Calcium. After reading I realized that this is essential for balancing out the tank.

Also, the article said that I should be dosing equal amounts of both Alk and Calcium. Is this correct? Only curious because Seachems Fusion calculator gives different ML doses for each. Is this because it takes a different dose of each to provide equal quantities?

I wouldn't try to match my tank to a new salt mix, rather know what the new salt mix is and do one of two things. Either dose the new salt mix to match the tank (which we assume is at the levels you want). Or add the new water and then test the tank and manually dose the tank back to where you want it. I wouldn't let the salt supplier decide what parameters I want.

As for dosing equal amounts of alk and Ca... well, in a perfect world, with the right Ca and alk and Mg in the right tank, yes, that's true. But I'd bet well over 50%, maybe even over 75% of reefers do NOT end up dosing equal amounts of Ca and alk. I have a single dosing pump that doses two lines at once so it does, in fact, dose equal amounts of Ca and alk. But for years, every couple of weeks I would have to add some extra alk manually. And in my current tank, mostly zoas and RFA's, I dose far more alk than I do Ca.

And don't forget to keep the Mg (magnesium) level up as well. Stony corals and inverts that make shells need Mg in order to utilize the Ca and alk to build skeleton or shell.

 

[JCOLE]

I wouldn't try to match my tank to a new salt mix, rather know what the new salt mix is and do one of two things. Either dose the new salt mix to match the tank (which we assume is at the levels you want). Or add the new water and then test the tank and manually dose the tank back to where you want it. I wouldn't let the salt supplier decide what parameters I want.

As for dosing equal amounts of alk and Ca... well, in a perfect world, with the right Ca and alk and Mg in the right tank, yes, that's true. But I'd bet well over 50%, maybe even over 75% of reefers do NOT end up dosing equal amounts of Ca and alk. I have a single dosing pump that doses two lines at once so it does, in fact, dose equal amounts of Ca and alk. But for years, every couple of weeks I would have to add some extra alk manually. And in my current tank, mostly zoas and RFA's, I dose far more alk than I do Ca.

And don't forget to keep the Mg (magnesium) level up as well. Stony corals and inverts that make shells need Mg in order to utilize the Ca and alk to build skeleton or shell.

That makes since. They said to match the salt so it wouldnt create an issue with water changes. However, adjusting the salt sounds good. I am using Reef Crystal's and I am thinking of switching to regular IO to help with better control.

How do I determine what is the best Alk to stay at? I would like faster growth, etc that is why I am leaning towards a 9.1-9.3 ALK range. I also have higher phosphates and nutrients so a higher ALK I think would be better.

However, I dont know if all my corals appreciate a higher ALK. My SPS looks good but some of my LPS and GSP do not look happy. I started dosing a couple days ago and since then my GSP has closed up and will not open.

Do you think it is due to raising to a higher ALK or the changes going on? Also, should I stop dosing and let it get down to around 8.3-8.4 to see how things look? I didnt dose last night and tested my ALK this morning and it is at 9.3. I am going to test tonight to see where it is at again.

Sorry for all the questions but I know I am at the dangerous stage where I can push the ALK and crash everything. Good thing this hobby has taught me patience.

 

[Ron Reefman]

h2oh2o said: ↑
That makes since. They said to match the salt so it wouldn't create an issue with water changes. However, adjusting the salt sounds good. I am using Reef Crystal's and I am thinking of switching to regular IO to help with better control.

I use IO Reef Crystals, but I've used regular IO as well.

How do I determine what is the best Alk to stay at? I would like faster growth, etc that is why I am leaning towards a 9.1-9.3 ALK range. I also have higher phosphates and nutrients so a higher ALK I think would be better.

Alk between 8 and 10 dKH is good for most corals. The biggest issue is when alk drops below about 5.0dKH and some sps and lps corals start dropping like flies! For faster growth I think most people would say go for higher numbers like 9 or 10 dKH for alk and 430 to 440 for Ca and 1300 for Mg. But at those levels you'll be using more and dosing more. As alk goes down, growth slows and alk and Ca usage slows.

However, I dont know if all my corals appreciate a higher ALK. My SPS looks good but some of my LPS and GSP do not look happy. I started dosing a couple days ago and since then my GSP has closed up and will not open.

Do you think it is due to raising to a higher ALK or the changes going on? Also, should I stop dosing and let it get down to around 8.3-8.4 to see how things look? I didnt dose last night and tested my ALK this morning and it is at 9.3. I am going to test tonight to see where it is at again.

I think it's more that they need to adjust to the higher levels. However, my tank, 40g cube, is full of zoas and RFA's and in a week my alk goes down to 6.0 dKH. I manually dose it up to 10.0 dKH over 2 hours and the zoas and RFA's don't seem to mind at all. I do have a few LPS and SPS corals and they do OK as well.

Sorry for all the questions but I know I am at the dangerous stage where I can push the ALK and crash everything. Good thing this hobby has taught me patience.

Don't sweat the questions, ask them until you feel comfortable with what you are doing. Patience in this hobby is a very good thing! I just hope my advise helps.

 

[JCOLE]

h2oh2o said: ↑
That makes since. They said to match the salt so it wouldn't create an issue with water changes. However, adjusting the salt sounds good. I am using Reef Crystal's and I am thinking of switching to regular IO to help with better control.

I use IO Reef Crystals, but I've used regular IO as well.

How do I determine what is the best Alk to stay at? I would like faster growth, etc that is why I am leaning towards a 9.1-9.3 ALK range. I also have higher phosphates and nutrients so a higher ALK I think would be better.

Alk between 8 and 10 dKH is good for most corals. The biggest issue is when alk drops below about 5.0dKH and some sps and lps corals start dropping like flies! For faster growth I think most people would say go for higher numbers like 9 or 10 dKH for alk and 430 to 440 for Ca and 1300 for Mg. But at those levels you'll be using more and dosing more. As alk goes down, growth slows and alk and Ca usage slows.

However, I dont know if all my corals appreciate a higher ALK. My SPS looks good but some of my LPS and GSP do not look happy. I started dosing a couple days ago and since then my GSP has closed up and will not open.

Do you think it is due to raising to a higher ALK or the changes going on? Also, should I stop dosing and let it get down to around 8.3-8.4 to see how things look? I didnt dose last night and tested my ALK this morning and it is at 9.3. I am going to test tonight to see where it is at again.

I think it's more that they need to adjust to the higher levels. However, my tank, 40g cube, is full of zoas and RFA's and in a week my alk goes down to 6.0 dKH. I manually dose it up to 10.0 dKH over 2 hours and the zoas and RFA's don't seem to mind at all. I do have a few LPS and SPS corals and they do OK as well.

Sorry for all the questions but I know I am at the dangerous stage where I can push the ALK and crash everything. Good thing this hobby has taught me patience.

Don't sweat the questions, ask them until you feel comfortable with what you are doing. Patience in this hobby is a very good thing! I just hope my advise helps.

Yes thank you for the help! Would a good game plan be to use half the dosage I am currently using for ALK and Calcium for a week and see what my levels are?

I am excited because I upgraded from a 55 to a 150 and my plan is to transition to SPS dominate over time. See picture. This is one of my birds nest. The top picture was taken on March 18th and the bottom picture about a week ago. I am getting growth and colors look good so I am hopefully on the right track.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Yes thank you for the help! Would a good game plan be to use half the dosage I am currently using for ALK and Calcium for a week and see what my levels are?

I am excited because I upgraded from a 55 to a 150 and my plan is to transition to SPS dominate over time. See picture. This is one of my birds nest. The top picture was taken on March 18th and the bottom picture about a week ago. I am getting growth and colors look good so I am hopefully on the right track.

I think that's a perfect game plan. One point, just to be clear, I'd be testing the alk and Ca levels every day even though the plan is to go for a week.

If that gets too messy a set of results, then I'd do the following. Get you alk and Ca levels exactly where you want them and dose whatever you have to every day for a few days (always testing and dosing at roughly the same time each day). Then quite dosing altogether and continue testing every day. Let alk fall until it gets to 6.0 or 7.0. Then divide the drop in alk (lets just say from 9.0dKH to 6.0 dKH, so a drop of 3.0) by the number of days (lets say 3). So you drop roughly 1.0dKH per day. Then set your doser to correct for a 1.0dKH drop every day. Odds are you may have to bump that up a bit as usage of alk is higher when levels are kept higher.

You might also test your dose amount with a different calculator than the one you are currently using (keep using it but start with a second one as well). That helps eliminate any error in calculation. I use this one: http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

 

[eggplantparrot]

That makes since. They said to match the salt so it wouldnt create an issue with water changes. However, adjusting the salt sounds good. I am using Reef Crystal's and I am thinking of switching to regular IO to help with better control.

How do I determine what is the best Alk to stay at? I would like faster growth, etc that is why I am leaning towards a 9.1-9.3 ALK range. I also have higher phosphates and nutrients so a higher ALK I think would be better.

However, I dont know if all my corals appreciate a higher ALK. My SPS looks good but some of my LPS and GSP do not look happy. I started dosing a couple days ago and since then my GSP has closed up and will not open.

Do you think it is due to raising to a higher ALK or the changes going on? Also, should I stop dosing and let it get down to around 8.3-8.4 to see how things look? I didnt dose last night and tested my ALK this morning and it is at 9.3. I am going to test tonight to see where it is at again.

Sorry for all the questions but I know I am at the dangerous stage where I can push the ALK and crash everything. Good thing this hobby has taught me patience.

try Fritz RPM salt if you want all around 9. it is very consistent for me

 

[JCOLE]

I think that's a perfect game plan. One point, just to be clear, I'd be testing the alk and Ca levels every day even though the plan is to go for a week.

If that gets too messy a set of results, then I'd do the following. Get you alk and Ca levels exactly where you want them and dose whatever you have to every day for a few days (always testing and dosing at roughly the same time each day). Then quite dosing altogether and continue testing every day. Let alk fall until it gets to 6.0 or 7.0. Then divide the drop in alk (lets just say from 9.0dKH to 6.0 dKH, so a drop of 3.0) by the number of days (lets say 3). So you drop roughly 1.0dKH per day. Then set your doser to correct for a 1.0dKH drop every day. Odds are you may have to bump that up a bit as usage of alk is higher when levels are kept higher.

You might also test your dose amount with a different calculator than the one you are currently using (keep using it but start with a second one as well). That helps eliminate any error in calculation. I use this one: http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

I did that for a week. And I noticed a consistent .10 drop of dKh everyday. I set my dose for that from Seachems dose calculator and that is when it was jumping more than .10 everyday. I will cut the dosage in half for ALK and Calcium for a week and test everyday.

I will keep you posted with the results. This is one thing that has stumped me for awhile. The more I read and go through trial and error the more it is starting to make sense.

Fingers crossed!! Thanks again.

 

[JCOLE]

About to give up! On Sunday I tested ALK and it was at 9.3, tested yesteday and it was at 9.3, tested today and it is 9.5 and my Calcium is at 562! My SPS looks good with Polp extension but my LPS does not look good. My Anemone is all the way retracted. Duncan's, Frogspawn, and Trumpets look wilted. What is going on???

 

[JCOLE]

Anemone yesterday and today. I haven't seen it like this in over a year.

 

[JCOLE]

GSP before and after. GSP has been retracted for over a week now.

 

[JCOLE]

Should I go back to Kalk and just wait it out or continue dosing 2-part and hope it gets better? I am barely dosing anything. I am dosing a total 6ml of each 3 times(2ml each dose) during the night on a 190 gallon system.

 

[JCOLE]

Any recommendations?

 

[Ron Reefman]

If you don't need to dose Ca and alk, you shouldn't be using kalkwasser either, right? When and what percentage of your tank was your last water change?

 

[JCOLE]

If you don't need to dose Ca and alk, you shouldn't be using kalkwasser either, right? When and what percentage of your tank was your last water change?

That has always been one of my biggest questions. When is a good time to start dosing? I didn't dose for a week and my ALK was around 9.6. It dropped. 10 everyday until it was down to 9.1. I started dosing to keep it between 9.3-9.4. I would like faster growth and it would work better with my high phosphates, etc. I feed reef roids, etc so it is not a low nutrient system. However, I am wondering if my LPS prefers a lower ALK system?

I tested my parameters last night and my ALK was at 9.4. However, my Calcium is at 576 which is really high. I am barely dosing anything to have it shoot that much.

The reason I am thinking of switching to Kalk is it helped stabilize my pH, ALK, and Calcium on it's own.

The last water change I did was about 2 weeks ago and about 15%.

Wonder if I should just quit dosing for a couple weeks and just do weekly water changes to see what happens?

 

[Ron Reefman]

That has always been one of my biggest questions. When is a good time to start dosing? I didn't dose for a week and my ALK was around 9.6. It dropped. 10 everyday until it was down to 9.1. I started dosing to keep it between 9.3-9.4. I would like faster growth and it would work better with my high phosphates, etc. I feed reef roids, etc so it is not a low nutrient system. However, I am wondering if my LPS prefers a lower ALK system?

I tested my parameters last night and my ALK was at 9.4. However, my Calcium is at 576 which is really high. I am barely dosing anything to have it shoot that much.

The reason I am thinking of switching to Kalk is it helped stabilize my pH, ALK, and Calcium on it's own.

The last water change I did was about 2 weeks ago and about 15%.

Wonder if I should just quit dosing for a couple weeks and just do weekly water changes to see what happens?

This was exactly what I was thinking. Back off and let the tank do it's own thing. But keep a close eye on water parameters and do some water changes.

One other point, don't worry about; and absolutely don't chase pH levels unless they get down in the 7.6 range and stay there. Then fix it by better gas exchange with the air at the water surface (waves and motion) or by bringing in outside air to your skimmer. Trying to do it with soda ash or any other chemical treatment is extremely temporary (as in hours at best).

 

[mitch91175]

That has always been one of my biggest questions. When is a good time to start dosing? I didn't dose for a week and my ALK was around 9.6. It dropped. 10 everyday until it was down to 9.1. I started dosing to keep it between 9.3-9.4. I would like faster growth and it would work better with my high phosphates, etc. I feed reef roids, etc so it is not a low nutrient system. However, I am wondering if my LPS prefers a lower ALK system?

I tested my parameters last night and my ALK was at 9.4. However, my Calcium is at 576 which is really high. I am barely dosing anything to have it shoot that much.

The reason I am thinking of switching to Kalk is it helped stabilize my pH, ALK, and Calcium on it's own.

The last water change I did was about 2 weeks ago and about 15%.

Wonder if I should just quit dosing for a couple weeks and just do weekly water changes to see what happens?

I'd say just stop dosing and do water changes, but still check you levels daily. Do not dose anything until you understand the trends with your tank. Having the levels drop during the week isn't an issue as long as they are dropping through the floor. If that happens while testing, then dose to make up the difference.

If you really want to grow SPS fast and have more consumption, increase your pH to average higher than 8. Once you get the pH higher, you will definitely notice dKH consumption. Not saying chase pH by dosing dKH either. You were likely better off just continuing to use your kalk instead of switching. If you are having a large dKH consumption per day, then look into adding to what you are already doing. Only you can determine what that number is for you situation.

The key will be knowing when you have growth spurts and dosing at those times. It's gonna be a challenge getting to that point but it is worth it once you do.

 

[mitch91175]

I wouldn't try to match my tank to a new salt mix, rather know what the new salt mix is and do one of two things. Either dose the new salt mix to match the tank (which we assume is at the levels you want). Or add the new water and then test the tank and manually dose the tank back to where you want it. I wouldn't let the salt supplier decide what parameters I want.

As for dosing equal amounts of alk and Ca... well, in a perfect world, with the right Ca and alk and Mg in the right tank, yes, that's true. But I'd bet well over 50%, maybe even over 75% of reefers do NOT end up dosing equal amounts of Ca and alk. I have a single dosing pump that doses two lines at once so it does, in fact, dose equal amounts of Ca and alk. But for years, every couple of weeks I would have to add some extra alk manually. And in my current tank, mostly zoas and RFA's, I dose far more alk than I do Ca.

And don't forget to keep the Mg (magnesium) level up as well. Stony corals and inverts that make shells need Mg in order to utilize the Ca and alk to build skeleton or shell.

Tell me about it. Definitely not a perfect world. My calcium/magnesium do not seem to be much of an issue at all. It always comes back to dKH, dKH, dKH. Even if my calcium/magnesium does get lower than I like, it doesn't show in my tank. Haven't had issue with dKH since I have been using an Alkatronic to help maintain my levels.

Heck I run a calcium reactor and kalkwasser and there are times where it doesn't even keep up with the dKH consumption going on. That's when the Alkatronic shines and give the dKH a little pick me up:

I notice around 6PM every day is when I get the biggest drop in dKH. Just around the time when my lighting % begins to drop. I thought about trying to tune the system to compensate for that decline in dKH, but decided against it. I actually like that the Alkatronic doses around that time to bring the level back to where it should be. Helps increase my pH even further.