Help! Australian laws on antibiotics and bacterial

JadeM · Mar 5, 2021

Hey reefers,

battled a bacterial infection and uronema that wiped my tank last year and certainly don’t want to lose another battle.
Dealing with medications such as antibiotics for fish in Australia is extremely difficult with strict bands on certain products such as kanaplex etc which leaves me with not many options when it comes to medications, mainly blue planet and other herbal remedies. Below are images of my naso tang with others from the internet that are how the infection started. At first a grey film started spreading on the side of the body and then the flesh started to show over the days. This fish is extremely thick and is probably why it is not dead yet.
Currently in Qt treating with a herbal treatment, and have methylene blue on hand, also is a fresh water bath worth it? Anyone treated this before in Australia? Really don’t want to lose this beautiful fish, Cheers
@Humblefish

JadeM · Mar 5, 2021

Top two photos are of my fish *

JadeM · Mar 5, 2021

Anyone had luck with blue planet and tetracycline antibacterial?

Topekoms · Mar 5, 2021

Can you go to a vet and get a prescription?

JadeM · Mar 5, 2021

Topekoms said:
Can you go to a vet and get a prescription?

Could ring I. The morning. But unlikely they have metro on hand. Any thoughts on blue planet tri sulfa and aquari cycline?

Topekoms · Mar 5, 2021

Even if they don't have metro they might have something similar. I am not familiar with those products.

TriggerFinger · Mar 5, 2021

@Jay Hemdal can you advise if tetracycline can be used to help treat this naso tang? OP has trouble getting fish medicine in Australia.

Courtney Aldrich · Mar 5, 2021

Tetracycline is a broad spectrum antibiotic, but as Jay said below is ineffective in saltwater (edited). Metronidazole (metro) is only used to treat internal anaerobic and protozoal infections, thus would not be recommended if you believe it's a bacterial infection. The infection is likely caused by a gram-negative bacteria such as Aeromonas spp., consequently ciprofloxacin (or any fluoroquinolone, i.e. antibiotic ending in -oxacin) would be great. Kanamycyin or nitrofurazone (Furan-2) also cover Aeromonas and other gram-negative bacteria. I would not recommend penicillin, amoxicillin, or erythromycin - most Aeromonas are resistant and their coverage of gram-negative organisms is poor.

Jay Hemdal · Mar 5, 2021

Courtney Aldrich said:
Tetracycline is a broad spectrum antibiotic, so a reasonable choice. Metronidazole (metro) is only used to treat internal anaerobic and protozoal infections, thus would not be recommended if you believe it's a bacterial infection. The infection is likely caused by a gram-negative bacteria such as Aeromonas spp., consequently ciprofloxacin (or any fluoroquinolone, i.e. antibiotic ending in -oxacin) would be great. Kanamycyin or nitrofurazone (Furan-2) also cover Aeromonas and other gram-negative bacteria. I would not recommend penicillin, amoxicillin, or erythromycin - most Aeromonas are resistant and their coverage of gram-negative organisms is poor.

Tetracycline is inactivated by calcium and magnesium so should not be used as a bath in seawater.
Jay

Courtney Aldrich · Mar 5, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
Tetracycline is inactivated by calcium and magnesium so should not be used as a bath in seawater.
Jay

Thanks for correcting!

Malcontent · Mar 5, 2021

I would look for a vet. If you have public aquariums or zoos with fish there are fish vets around.

That being said, pigeon keepers seem to have the most access to drugs. I can find stuff at pigeon stores that I can't find anywhere else (e.g., toltrazuril).

JadeM · Mar 5, 2021

Courtney Aldrich said:
Thanks for correcting!

So could this be used in a fresh water bath?

JadeM · Mar 5, 2021

Malcontent said:
I would look for a vet. If you have public aquariums or zoos with fish there are fish vets around.

That being said, pigeon keepers seem to have the most access to drugs. I can find stuff at pigeon stores that I can't find anywhere else (e.g., toltrazuril).

Would a bird antibiotic possibly work?

JadeM · Mar 5, 2021

Courtney Aldrich said:
Tetracycline is a broad spectrum antibiotic, but as Jay said below is ineffective in saltwater (edited). Metronidazole (metro) is only used to treat internal anaerobic and protozoal infections, thus would not be recommended if you believe it's a bacterial infection. The infection is likely caused by a gram-negative bacteria such as Aeromonas spp., consequently ciprofloxacin (or any fluoroquinolone, i.e. antibiotic ending in -oxacin) would be great. Kanamycyin or nitrofurazone (Furan-2) also cover Aeromonas and other gram-negative bacteria. I would not recommend penicillin, amoxicillin, or erythromycin - most Aeromonas are resistant and their coverage of gram-negative organisms is poor.

Thanks for the info I will keep digging, do you think my fish is too far gone to heal and make a full recovery?

Courtney Aldrich · Mar 5, 2021

JadeM said:
Thanks for the info I will keep digging, do you think my fish is too far gone to heal and make a full recovery?

I'm not an expert on fish diseases, but I think an antibiotic would really help recovery. I searched and found triple sulfa tablets are available in Australia (https://www.petstock.com.au/product/fish/bp-tri-sulfa-tablets-15pk/52221). These antibiotics work best against gram-positive bacteria and have some coverage of gram-negatives (we don't know the causative organism anyway and these are used to treat a lot different bacterial infections). Since there are few antibiotics available in Australia, I would definitely give this a shot.

I also found this list of approve antibiotics in AU: https://www.agriculture.gov.au/import/goods/live-animals/importing-live-fish-aus/approved-treatments. Among this list I like Enrofloxacin. A prescription is required (https://www.petceutics.com.au/prescriptions/baytril-25-oral-100ml.html).

Courtney Aldrich · Mar 5, 2021

JadeM said:
So could this be used in a fresh water bath?

The antibiotic is active in freshwater, but I don't think a freshwater bath could be effective due to the short contact time. Most antibiotics require sustained treatment to be effective.

JadeM · Mar 5, 2021

Courtney Aldrich said:
I'm not an expert on fish diseases, but I think an antibiotic would really help recovery. I searched and found triple sulfa tablets are available in Australia (https://www.petstock.com.au/product/fish/bp-tri-sulfa-tablets-15pk/52221). These antibiotics work best against gram-positive bacteria, but have some coverage of gram-negatives (we don't know the causative organism anyway and these are used to treat a lot different bacterial infections). Since there are few antibiotics available in Australia, I would definitely give this a shot.

I also found this list of approve antibiotics in AU: https://www.agriculture.gov.au/import/goods/live-animals/importing-live-fish-aus/approved-treatments. Among this list I like Enrofloxacin yep I found that all antibiotics ending in oxacin must be prescribed, it’s possible I could go through a vet and get some so I might give that a try

Courtney Aldrich · Mar 5, 2021

I found this great post on Enrofloxacin.

Antibiotics

This information is direct from Humblefish and I'm posting it here with his permission The antibiotics we currently use to treat bacterial infections by dosing the water water column tend to be very slow acting but there are some new options that he has been using and I am currently using...

www.reef2reef.com

Malcontent · Mar 5, 2021

Fish vets Australia:

Welcome To The Fish Vet

www.thefishvet.com.au

If none are in your area they may know someone who is (it's a small community).

JadeM · Mar 5, 2021

Courtney Aldrich said:
I'm not an expert on fish diseases, but I think an antibiotic would really help recovery. I searched and found triple sulfa tablets are available in Australia (https://www.petstock.com.au/product/fish/bp-tri-sulfa-tablets-15pk/52221). These antibiotics work best against gram-positive bacteria and have some coverage of gram-negatives (we don't know the causative organism anyway and these are used to treat a lot different bacterial infections). Since there are few antibiotics available in Australia, I would definitely give this a shot.

I also found this list of approve antibiotics in AU: https://www.agriculture.gov.au/import/goods/live-animals/importing-live-fish-aus/approved-treatments. Among this list I like Enrofloxacin. A prescription is required (https://www.petceutics.com.au/prescriptions/baytril-25-oral-100ml.html).

Just rung the vet and with Australian laws I would have to bring the fish in for a prescription, all local vets are booked out and are shut tomorrow so Monday will be the earliest...