Help - bacterial?

[chrissreef]

Help - I picked her up about a week ago. Been in QT 1 week with Cupramine and today I noticed these dark patches. Bacterial? Ideas? Take our cupramine and treat with something else? Yes I know she also has Lymphocystis - came with it and I'll work that with a broad diet.

https://imgur.com/a/1kqenAM

 

[tgrick]

Help - I picked her up about a week ago. Been in QT 1 week with Cupramine and today I noticed these dark patches. Bacterial? Ideas? Take our cupramine and treat with something else? Yes I know she also has Lymphocystis - came with it and I'll work that with a broad diet.

https://imgur.com/a/1kqenAM

I guess I'll be 1st! I must disclose that I am not a fish doctor but I do have 40 years give or take a few doing this. I've killed fish and I have saved many. So by luck but lately skill. I believe the patches you are seeing are a result of a sensitivity to cupramine. Do you know what your levels are? Do you have the Hanna HR copper checker? If you do not, RUN RUN RUN to get one. It will save you grief, money and the fish that you cure and save with also thank you. It's a MUST HAVE in my opinion.

What would I do? If I were in your shoes I would look to remove cupramne and substitute with Chloroquine Phosphate. Some LFS may sell you a small amount. Then again you may need to use other resources like a vet or ebay. Ebay is hit or miss...

The lymphocystis does not bother me at this time. What is the ammonia level? It does seems to go away with time and should resolve itself. To improve water quality in a small tanks I am playing with the latest addition from Dr. Tims aquatics. It's a gel based bacteria that gets slowly released and I think that it could be a really great addition to quarantine tanks. I would especially use it with fish that show lympho.

If you can't get Chloroquine Phosphate I would look to buy copper power which is chelated vs. Ionic. Cupramine claims may be exaggerated marketing and might actually not be that gentle on fish. Then again, some fish don't care what copper they are in and others die at the 1st dose of ANY copper product. Yu can also use coppersafe. You MUST have the hanna checker. Not API. Not any other...Hanna HR copper colorimeter and you need to buy a pack of test reagents as it only brings 5.

Lower copper. Use CP or copper power/coppersafe. CP comes 1st. Clean Clean water. Try the Gel from Dr. Tim. I'm testing now, but I do think it's a great idea. Good Luck!

 

[chrissreef]

I guess I'll be 1st! I must disclose that I am not a fish doctor but I do have 40 years give or take a few doing this. I've killed fish and I have saved many. So by luck but lately skill. I believe the patches you are seeing are a result of a sensitivity to cupramine. Do you know what your levels are?

Hi, yes I have an API test kit for the Cupramine and it looked between 40-50 but I will say that it's hard to tell color degrees on kits for me. I did follow the Cupramine dosage instructions and this fish has been in one week. I just did a 13% water change and added Bifurin+. I didn't run any carbon to remove copper prior to as some locals thought it could be a bacterial infection. I also read the two could be used together. I'm not having luck finding images of copper sensitivity (have any?). As the fish doesn't seem stressed and is eating I'll do another water change tomorrow (so another 13% = 26%ish so copper should be down some). I'll also add more bifurin if everything looks ok - per its instructions. If you have any additional advice, please let me know. You're the second that mentioned copper sensitivity... i'll look for images more.

 

[USMC 4 LIFE]

Hi, yes I have an API test kit for the Cupramine and it looked between 40-50 but I will say that it's hard to tell color degrees on kits for me. I did follow the Cupramine dosage instructions and this fish has been in one week. I just did a 13% water change and added Bifurin+. I didn't run any carbon to remove copper prior to as some locals thought it could be a bacterial infection. I also read the two could be used together. I'm not having luck finding images of copper sensitivity (have any?). As the fish doesn't seem stressed and is eating I'll do another water change tomorrow (so another 13% = 26%ish so copper should be down some). I'll also add more bifurin if everything looks ok - per its instructions. If you have any additional advice, please let me know. You're the second that mentioned copper sensitivity... i'll look for images more.

You’re testing for copper with the wrong kit. Your levels are more than likely high.

I would remove the copper immediately and buy the appropriate copper test kit (salifert, Hanna checker) for the ionic copper.

 

[chrissreef]

You’re testing for copper with the wrong kit. Your levels are more than likely high.

I would remove the copper immediately and buy the appropriate copper test kit (salifert, Hanna checker) for the ionic copper.

Ok, so you don't think it's bacterial?

I saw this and also called Seachem's support about the API kit and was told it works. Google shows various answers... guess I better find an ionic kit just to be safe.
https://www.seachem.com/support/for...2327-can-the-api-copper-test-detect-cupramine

 

[USMC 4 LIFE]

That forums information is wrong. Remove the copper completely and purchase the correct copper test kit. Or better yet purchase chelated copper instead.

That fish is only going to suffer and die if you don’t monitor your sipper levels correctly. There are plenty of thread on this forum that educate on quarantine procedures involving copper and how to identify diseases as well. I recommend reading those many times over and over again

 

[tgrick]

Purchase the Hanna HR copper colorimeter...Done! The issue is the test kit. I forgot about that. I never use ionic copper, as I much prefer chelated.

 

[chrissreef]

I did another 20% WC last night and one this morning in addition to run carbon. The fish looks worse and is starting to breath heavy... not looking good.

Not placing blame - but I'm a little ticked at Seachem for telling me the kit would work over the phone... and their FAQ forum says it will. When I google I see mixed answers on various websites. I really wish bad information could be deleted from the internet b/c seekers can't discern good/bad easily. I've read a few disease threads but they didn't have images of copper OD - bacterial was the closest images I could find. There are a few stickies - each is 5-20 pages though and is a little tough to go through in an "emergency" situation. I'll go through this one more thoroughly but at this point it's just a wait and see on the fish I think. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-test-kits.257924/

 

[tgrick]

If you change water do it very small batches at a time.

Aerate the water as heavily as possible. Drop temp a few degrees if possible. Yeah...the internet has a ton of bad information. We learn from mistakes and move forward.

 

[EmdeReef]

If it's a bacterial infection, you shouldn't treat with copper but antibiotics and probably start with an antiseptic bath. I would do water changes and remove copper.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bacterial-infections.191511/