Help!! Cotton Candy Torch is dying!!!

[Rawsreef]

Hi everyone, please let me know what my issue here could be.

I will apologize in advance as this will be a very detailed post, I will try to point out every possible variable.



Just a little bit of history, this would make the 3rd torch I purchase, and I got it on Oct. 28th. The first torch was a beautiful, and what feels to be bullet-proof snakeskin white tipped torch I've had for about 4-5 months. Been doing great since day 1.

Here's a pic :

Now the second torch, died in about a week or so in my tank. I assumed it was because I had glued it to a spot it did not like, as I used to place newly acquired corals in the sand bed for a couple of days and if they seem happy I will move it to a more permanent location. So I learned my lesson and I began leaving them in the sand bed for a longer period of time to acclimate them a bet longer. (usually weeks)


Now about my cotton candy, I took this pic a few days ago. I think on the second day it was in my tank :

I am speculating maybe too much light, or maybe too much food, or maybe they just don't like the environment in my tank.
The torch was never moved from its original placement in the sand before its health started rapidly declining. and it was placed in indirect flow, in what I would consider to be low to medium flow and medium light.

Now,
The reason I say too much light is because of the rapid recession of the polyp(maybe trying to hide from light?)
The reason I say too much food, is because I have a heavy hand when it comes to feeding my fish/corals, and I did feed this coral a few days ago. But most corals/fish seem to love the food. I feed Reef Frenzy mixed with reef roids to all my corals, some a bit more than others depending on the type of coral. This torch did not get a huge meal as I was keeping in mind that it was still acclimating.
The reason I say maybe the environment, is because well lets face it, my reef is not a perfect one. I rearrange a rock or two whenever I feel the need to, and maybe the constant changes / movement in the sand upsets certain corals more than others.

I will test water as soon as I post this thread and post results. But please let me know if there's anything I can do to save this torch I really don't want to lose it!


It started receding into skeleton yesterday. and it's progressing very rapidly, about half the torch is receded in a day and a half. Also a white mucus coming off the skeleton (where the polyp used to be)

Heres a couple pics of it right now, after I moved it into a more shaded less flow area. You can see the white mucus in the first picture a bit easier than in the second pic:

It has been questionable since I put it in my tank as it gets all shriveled up at night and pretty deflated at certain times of the day, while my first torch is fluffy all day and night. But when the cotton candy looked healthy, it looked very nice!!


Last time I checked all parameters was on 10/30/21

Salinity - 1.26
alkalinity - 4.2 -- - - - - This number may have been an error, because I dosed 20 ML of ALK and 20 ML of Cal and the very next day my alk, shot right back up to 8.2 which is around the normal 8.4 I try to keep.
calcium - 390
mag - 1400
pH - 8.2
NO2 Nitrite - 0
NH3/NH4 Ammonia -0
NO3 - 5 - 10

 

[Rawsreef]

Here's the results

Salinity - 1.26
alkalinity - 8.4
calcium - 400
mag - 1360
pH - 8.2
NO2 Nitrite - 0
NH3/NH4 - 0
NO3 - 20

What do you guys think? I don't see anything but a rise in Nitrates

 

[Uncle99]

What’s phosphate run at?

 

[Shirak]

Unless your tank is way out of whack or something majorly wrong a few days won't kill a new torch. Since you already have another healthy torch it's not your tank.

BJD and was probably already on it's way out when you got it but wasn't showing visible signs just yet. The great majority of these torches are resold as soon as they land in the US. They are super stressed and possible a little damaged from all the travel to the US and then to the retailer and then to the customer. They get BJD and die within a few days of going into the hobby tank

I stock Cipro from now on and always keep a close eye on any recent LPS going into my system.

Probably too late to save at this point but you could try dipping in iodine bath and if you have chemi clean which is another type of antibiotic which supposedly helps with bacterial infection like BJD.

 

[Yazannreef]

I would put them in and between the rocks in your sand bed. I had similar issues in the past. I would dip them right away in coral rx then iodine dip them right after for tissue recovery

 

[vetteguy53081]

NO sandbed. Sand will irritate them. lower third of tank best to assure flow is moderate and light as well.
For starters, If you have leather corals, this may be part of the issue. Many leather coral species produce and release toxic chemicals, called terpenes, into the water to protect themselves and to stunt the growth of other species. One of the biggest problems I have seen beginner hobbyists have is failing to account for the calcium demand for these corals. If there is insufficient calcium in your aquarium water, these corals will not be able to make their coral skeleton. You should also never lift a torch coral out of the water if you can avoid it. You could tear the polyps, and torn polyps are prone to infection followed by necrosis
Torch require typical parameters including a temperature around 78 degrees, a specific gravity of about 1.025, ph of about 8.2, and a calcium level of about 400 ppm. Like most large polyp stony corals, a torch coral benefits from moderate water flow. The polyps will remain retracted and under-inflated if the water current is too fast because the large flowing polyps are prone to rip and tear in high or ultra-high current environments.
The torch coral is a photosynthetic coral, meaning it has a relationship with symbiotic zooxanthellae (single-cell photosynthetic organisms) that live inside its tissues that converts the light energy into sugar. In exchange for a home inside the coral, the zooxanthellae split their harvest and feed the coral. Therefore, it is possible to keep the Torch coral without any feeding at all. However, all corals are animals, and animals are meant to eat.
The best placement for a torch coral is in a location that gets moderate water flow and moderate-intensity lighting. Torches are aggressive corals that protect themselves by wielding their sweeper tentacles maliciously. Sweeper tentacles are specialized tentacles that extend much larger than the typical tentacles and are equipped with stinging cells. Torches will send out these long tendrils to zap anything nearby within reach.

 

[Rawsreef]

What’s phosphate run at?

Unfortunately this is the one test I dont have. I have Red Sea test kit and it does not come with phosphate... lol

Anyways I figured this is one of the lesser crucial parameters in terms of a corals health?

I would put them in and between the rocks in your sand bed. I had similar issues in the past. I would dip them right away in coral rx then iodine dip them right after for tissue recovery

Basically what I did minus the dipping. Its literally almost 3/4 of the way gone now.

Unless your tank is way out of whack or something majorly wrong a few days won't kill a new torch. Since you already have another healthy torch it's not your tank.

BJD and was probably already on it's way out when you got it but wasn't showing visible signs just yet. The great majority of these torches are resold as soon as they land in the US. They are super stressed and possible a little damaged from all the travel to the US and then to the retailer and then to the customer. They get BJD and die within a few days of going into the hobby tank

I stock Cipro from now on and always keep a close eye on any recent LPS going into my system.

Probably too late to save at this point but you could try dipping in iodine bath and if you have chemi clean which is another type of antibiotic which supposedly helps with bacterial infection like BJD.

Doubt its BJD as I've yet to see any brown jelly. This torch is showing the same symptoms of the previous torch that did not make it.

I'm guessing by tomorrow it'll be a goner.

Thing is I've been looking at this torch at my LFS for a few weeks and it looked great, along with another single head and a double head torch of the same kind, I'm guessing from the same colony.

 

[Rawsreef]

NO sandbed. Sand will irritate them. lower third of tank best to assure flow is moderate and light as well.
For starters, If you have leather corals, this may be part of the issue. Many leather coral species produce and release toxic chemicals, called terpenes, into the water to protect themselves and to stunt the growth of other species. One of the biggest problems I have seen beginner hobbyists have is failing to account for the calcium demand for these corals. If there is insufficient calcium in your aquarium water, these corals will not be able to make their coral skeleton. You should also never lift a torch coral out of the water if you can avoid it. You could tear the polyps, and torn polyps are prone to infection followed by necrosis
Torch require typical parameters including a temperature around 78 degrees, a specific gravity of about 1.025, ph of about 8.2, and a calcium level of about 400 ppm. Like most large polyp stony corals, a torch coral benefits from moderate water flow. The polyps will remain retracted and under-inflated if the water current is too fast because the large flowing polyps are prone to rip and tear in high or ultra-high current environments.
The torch coral is a photosynthetic coral, meaning it has a relationship with symbiotic zooxanthellae (single-cell photosynthetic organisms) that live inside its tissues that converts the light energy into sugar. In exchange for a home inside the coral, the zooxanthellae split their harvest and feed the coral. Therefore, it is possible to keep the Torch coral without any feeding at all. However, all corals are animals, and animals are meant to eat.
The best placement for a torch coral is in a location that gets moderate water flow and moderate-intensity lighting. Torches are aggressive corals that protect themselves by wielding their sweeper tentacles maliciously. Sweeper tentacles are specialized tentacles that extend much larger than the typical tentacles and are equipped with stinging cells. Torches will send out these long tendrils to zap anything nearby within reach.

Lots of good facts here,

Except I don't have any leathers. Also I doubt the sand irritated it, as I literally got a hammer from the same LFS a few days after I got this torch and i dropped the hammer flat on its polyps on the ground while moving it to my tank. I saw half of the "bubbles" popped on my floor I was ticked as ****, and so was the hammer.

but even that level of irritation and the hammer bounced back within a day.

I appreciate the info but I don't think this is the issue with my torches unfortunately :\

Maybe another variable we are overlooking? maybe they don't like the way I look at them?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Lots of good facts here,

Except I don't have any leathers. Also I doubt the sand irritated it, as I literally got a hammer from the same LFS a few days after I got this torch and i dropped the hammer flat on its polyps on the ground while moving it to my tank. I saw half of the "bubbles" popped on my floor I was ticked as ****, and so was the hammer.

but even that level of irritation and the hammer bounced back within a day.

I appreciate the info but I don't think this is the issue with my torches unfortunately :\

Maybe another variable we are overlooking? maybe they don't like the way I look at them?

Torch more sensitive than hammer. Low calcium is another affecting factor.
Here is where I keep mine

 

[Shirak]

The mucous streaming off and the brown in between the ridges of the last photo you posted and the fact it's disintegrating so fast... bjd

 

[Rawsreef]

I am not kidding guys, this s*** is literally melting like clockwork.

In the earlier pic the skeleton shows from about 1 to 4 o'clock

right now its showing from about 1 oclock to about 7 or 8 oclock

 

[dontbuyxenia]

I doubt its bjd considering that your other corals are okay. It could be some sort of bacterial infection thats not bjd. And i doubt its the sand either, I have an indo gold on the sand bed that is pretty happy. Id say that if youre alkalinity had a swing and it wasnt an error then thats probably the cause. Also phosphate too low or high could be an issue. Id lean towards inproper acclimation/swing in parameters leading to stress and subsequent infection. I'd throw it out at this point. Its done

 

[Rawsreef]

The mucous streaming off and the brown in between the ridges of the last photo you posted and the fact it's disintegrating so fast... bjd

Agreed, best course of action? pull it out and toss it ?

That is going to hurt

 

[Rawsreef]

I doubt its bjd considering that your other corals are okay. It could be some sort of bacterial infection thats not bjd. And i doubt its the sand either, I have an indo gold on the sand bed that is pretty happy. Id say that if youre alkalinity had a swing and it wasnt an error then thats probably the cause. Also phosphate too low or high could be an issue. Id lean towards inproper acclimation/swing in parameters leading to stress and subsequent infection. I'd throw it out at this point. Its done

Looks like all roads are leading to pulling it out.

****,

I might be done with these torches for a while...

 

[vetteguy53081]

-------

Agreed, best course of action? pull it out and toss it ?

That is going to hur

Dont toss . Two things....... Doing this 26+ years, and have seen these go bald, and come right back out of nowhere.
Additionally, you can try a diluted iodine dip which sometimes help

 

[dontbuyxenia]

-------


Dont toss . Two things....... Doing this 26+ years, and have seen these go bald, and come right back out of nowhere.
Additionally, you can try a diluted iodine dip which sometimes help

I'd agree, but if it bjd or something else thats contagious, then the other corals are at a higher risk for getting it. Iodine or peroxide dips can help but its hit or miss tbh

 

[Rawsreef]

I'd agree, but if it bjd or something else thats contagious, then the other corals are at a higher risk for getting it. Iodine or peroxide dips can help but its hit or miss tbh

I've read BJD wont affect a coral with a healthy immune system, not sure how true that is or not

 

[dontbuyxenia]

I've read BJD wont affect a coral with a healthy immune system, not sure how true that is or

I have never heard that. But even if its true, the longer its in your tank, the greater the chance it can spread

 

[Uncle99]

Unfortunately this is the one test I dont have. I have Red Sea test kit and it does not come with phosphate... lol

Anyways I figured this is one of the lesser crucial parameters in terms of a corals health?

Keeping trace amounts of N and Phosphate is critical to the long term success of corals. Zero amounts starve corals and bring pest algae’s to the DT, same with large imbalances between the two.
Too much, corals don’t grow, too little, and they look drab with little extension.
Corals can use nitrates directly, but phosphate is delivered by being consumed by algae, the the coral consumes the algae.
For me, the maintenance of phosphate is as key as keeping Alk pinned.

 

[maleks.reef]

This is exactly what happened to 2 torches and 1 hammer (all my LPS at the time). In a span of 1 week, they all just dissolved away. I've had them for months before that. There were not added at the same time and the hammer was not from the same source as the torches. It made me hate my tank tbh because no one could figure out what the heck happened. Since then I've added some cuprisorb and started doing 10% water changes every 2 weeks. Now i have 2 duncans, 1 hammer and 1 dying candy cane. The duncans and hammer haven't have been in for a long time so I dont want to get excited. I just hope they make it this time...

PS: The rest of my corals are softies like zoas, shrooms, cloves, gsp and 4 leathers. What if the leathers have been releasing toxins all this time? I do run carbon and change it out monthly.