Help! Fish in QT has ich. Never used coppersafe before

LovesDogs_CatsRokay · Feb 12, 2018

My new flasher wrasse suddenly looks to be covered all over in tiny bubbles. I’m guessing it’s ich or velvet and not just a bunch of air bubbles? There is a pintail wrasse with him that looks okay. I have coppersafe and an api copper test kit. Ive never done a copper treatment and am kind of scared. I know wrasses are sensitive to copper. Can someone walk me through how to do it safely? It’s a 10 gallon QT tank. I haven’t been able to get a decent picture yet.

4FordFamily · Feb 12, 2018

First of all, watch ammonia. Do you have an ammonia alert badge by Seachem?

Dr Tims or Biospira (bacteria in a bottle) will help keep it at bay.

For a wrasse to be covered as you describe (pics would help) my best guess is velvet, as they’re relatively resilient to parasites and velvet more often takes over like that.

Increase coppersafe to 1.75-2PPM over a 48 hour period (I’d recommend over 5 day’s except that the fish is already covered). Small doses several times a day are best, tested via API test kits. Remove all carbon or media from filter. You’ll need a HOB with some “sponge” for bacteria to colonize, and a powerhead and/or bubbler to oxygenate the water.

cmcoker · Feb 12, 2018

LovesDogs_CatsRokay said:
My new flasher wrasse suddenly looks to be covered all over in tiny bubbles. I’m guessing it’s ich or velvet and not just a bunch of air bubbles? There is a pintail wrasse with him that looks okay. I have coppersafe and an api copper test kit. Ive never done a copper treatment and am kind of scared. I know wrasses are sensitive to copper. Can someone walk me through how to do it safely? It’s a 10 gallon QT tank. I haven’t been able to get a decent picture yet.

Is there a bubbler in the tank? Sometimes they can get tiny bubbles on them. Do they come and go or move around? Any other symptoms?

If it is ich, then you want to slowly raise the copper. In my 10 gallon I added 1ml of Coppersafe at a time, dripped into a high flow area, repeat in a few hours. I took 5 days to bring it up to 2.0ppm. If you need to do a water change, make sure and add copper to the new salt water before adding it to the tank.

Agree with above as well. If it's velvet, no time to waste bring the level up

tgrick · Feb 12, 2018

A picture is important.

If he has ick then we can take out time.

If he has velvet you need to be quick about copper...usually full dose in 48 hours. It's usually 5 or 6 days if ick. Copper is safer if done slowly but velvet will kill quickly so we lose the advantage of time.

You will also need to freshwater dip if it's velvet. You need acriflavin and/or formlin for a bath. Let's not get ahead...picture as soon as possible.

Oh...if it's velvet you need to move VERY quick. I know...I just went through it.

LovesDogs_CatsRokay · Feb 12, 2018

Here is the best pic I could get. He is suddenly lethargic but was swimming and eating a few minutes ago. I do have an ammonia alert badge. No ammonia is present.

LovesDogs_CatsRokay · Feb 12, 2018

Here is another pic. I don’t have any formalin. All I have is coppersafe and prazipro

cracker · Feb 12, 2018

Loves, I wish the best for your fish. I have the copper & API test & like you, never treated. It's bound to happen sooner or later . I understand your apprehension !

LovesDogs_CatsRokay · Feb 12, 2018

I added a half teaspoon of coppersafe to start with and both fish perked up almost immediately and started swimming around. What’s the target amount? 2ppm?

LovesDogs_CatsRokay · Feb 12, 2018

Here is another pic. There’s a glare on the glass but you can see the white spots on his head. The pintail doesn’t look okay as previously thought. Just not as bad as the flasher.

cmcoker · Feb 12, 2018

Yes, 2.0ppm is goal. With the amount of spots I'd treat as velvet. Copper in 24 to 48 hours.
Velvet protocol:
https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/217570/

Jr'sReef · Feb 12, 2018

It does seem like ich but these fish do sleep in a "cocoon" which does resemble a slime like substance that is bubbly weird looking

tgrick · Feb 12, 2018

It looks like velvet. The pictures are still not 100% clear and the other option is Brook. However, looks like velvet from 3rd picture.

Velvet is a surface parasite. He probably needs emergency relief and the only way that happens is a freshwater dip for 5 mins.

I've had really good luck with freshwater dips. What I do:

1) RODI water
2) Lots of aeration in the small dip container. Min. 30 mins of air.
3) PH at 8. a) squirt some tank water b) Use PH up and SLOWLY get it to around 8. I'm really crazy about a PH of 8 but other people are not as concerned. I think it makes a big difference.
4) Match temperature to tank

Watch him during the dip. If he shows serious stress signs remove from dip. If not...5 mins.

5) He needs an acriflavin bath for 60-90 mins. I use Reef rally.

If he does not receive a dip soon he will probably die in 24 hours. Good Luck

LovesDogs_CatsRokay · Feb 12, 2018

We are preparing a fresh water dip now and brought copper up to about 0.75. I don’t have any acriflavin or formalin and all the stores are closed for the night so I will try to get some tomorrow if they make it through the night.

LovesDogs_CatsRokay · Feb 13, 2018

Nothing came off either fish during the freshwater dip. Not sure if that means anything or not. The flasher is looking somewhat better though. He is swimming around and his color looks brighter. The pintail is currently hiding. I guess there’s nothing more I can do them for tonight, just hope they make it through. Thank you everyone for the quick responses! It’s nice to know there are always people to turn to for help.

tgrick · Feb 13, 2018

If you can find chloroquine phosphate I find it a more gentle treatment than copper. What does he look like this morning?

tgrick · Feb 13, 2018

My bad. Stay with copper. The wrasse can NOT use Chloroquine Phosphate. The Link is this:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/

LovesDogs_CatsRokay · Feb 13, 2018

tgrick said:
If you can find chloroquine phosphate I find it a more gentle treatment than copper. What does he look like this morning?

They both made it through the night. The flasher is active and breathing normally. The pintail is hiding and lethargic. Both fish look pale but the white spots are gone. Since the spots are gone already, do we still think velvet? or just a nasty case of ich? I'm planning on stopping by the LFS on my way home from work to see if they have any acriflavin.

cmcoker · Feb 13, 2018

LovesDogs_CatsRokay said:
They both made it through the night. The flasher is active and breathing normally. The pintail is hiding and lethargic. Both fish look pale but the white spots are gone. Since the spots are gone already, do we still think velvet? or just a nasty case of ich? I'm planning on stopping by the LFS on my way home from work to see if they have any acriflavin.

I'd still think velvet, velvet has a faster life cycle, and the cysts release many more swimmers, that's why we have to get copper up so fast.

tgrick · Feb 13, 2018

Yes...ich is below the skin. Velvet is a surface parasite. I think it's velvet. Copper level is fine for now. It needs to go up to full tomorrow. If you feel they are strong enough for a freshwater dip tomorrow then I would go for it. I would probably do the dip in the AM and raise copper a few hours later...about 2.

It's CRITICAL that use have ACRIFLAVIN for a bath. These guys will not survive unless they have a bath in it. I would NOT use formalin. Fish die in about 2 years after it's use.