Help - flukes or ich?

[Pau Hana Reefer]

I purchased a one spot foxface two weeks ago and he has been in a QT since January 3rd. I let him settle for a week and just kept an eye on him and made sure he was eating.

Last Friday, I changed out 25% of the water and he was freaking out (running into the glass over and over). Last Saturday morning, he got the first treatment of Prazipro. By Saturday night, he had white specks appearing on his head, trunk, and tail. By Sunday night, the only white specks remaining were on his tail. Today, all white specks are gone. I initially suspected ich, but upon looking closer at the specks, I noticed that some of them weren't perfectly round. Looking more into this, I came across old threads where others also saw white specks after dozing Prazipro, pointing to the possibility that the Prazipro was working in eliminating flukes.

I am leaning towards doing a freshwater dip tomorrow or Thursday before a second round of Prazipro. But I'm wondering if it's possible he also had/has ich, and considering following up the second treatment of Prazipro with Copper Power.

Some questions:
1) In the pics below, does this look more like flukes or ich? (or both?)
2) Is freshwater dip necessary if I'm already treating with Prazipro?
3) Thoughts on Copper Power after second treatment of Prazipro?
4) Can you see flukes or not? I've read in some threads that you can't see flukes... but yet as part of freshwater dip, you're looking for white sesame-like grains on the bottom of the container.

 

[Big G]

I wouldn't do the FW dip unless the fish's breathing is labored or rapid since you already dosed Prazi once.
I treat all of my fish with copper either before or after treating for flukes.

 

[4FordFamily]

I wouldn't do the FW dip unless the fish's breathing is labored or rapid since you already dosed Prazi once.
I treat all of my fish with copper either before or after treating for flukes.

I agree. It LOOKS more like flukes though most of the time prazi will cause them to vanish pretty quickly. it could very easily be ich with their thick slimecoat the ich may "present" differently. I always assume fish have ich and flukes and treat accordingly.

 

[Pau Hana Reefer]

Thanks @Big G and @4FordFamily. Based on your feedback and other older threads here, my new plan is to:

1) 25% water change and second treatment of Prazipro this Thursday
2) 25% water change and add carbon filter back in after 5 days (next Tuesday)
3) Copper Power treatment after that

Does this sound like a good approach?

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

The fish may have fukes, but those visable spots arent flukes.

Flukes are opaque and extremely difficult to see on the body of a fish except sometimes if they are on a black fish.

Those spots look and sound like ich.

Flukes are visable during a fwd because as they swell up with water they turn cloudy and fall off.

I would treat with copper and a follow up treatment of prazi 7 days after the first round .

 

[Pau Hana Reefer]

The fish may have fukes, but those visable spots arent flukes.

Flukes are opaque and extremely difficult to see on the body of a fish except sometimes if they are on a black fish.

Those spots look and sound like ich.

Flukes are visable during a fwd because as they swell up with water they turn cloudy and fall off.

I would treat with copper and a follow up treatment of prazi 7 days after the first round .

Aha, thanks @GoldeneyeRet for the explanation on why you can see flukes in FW dip.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

The fish may have fukes, but those visable spots arent flukes.

Flukes are opaque and extremely difficult to see on the body of a fish except sometimes if they are on a black fish.

Those spots look and sound like ich.

Flukes are visable during a fwd because as they swell up with water they turn cloudy and fall off.

I would treat with copper and a follow up treatment of prazi 7 days after the first round .

Agreed. I see visible ich spots on the fish. You're most likely dealing with both but its best to treat the worst of the two evils first. Copper treatment will help suppress flukes buying you time to treat the ich parasite and you can finish with 2 rounds of Prazipro.

Scenario 1 (with only 1 QT tank in rotation)
-Copper at therapeutic levels 35 days
-Add carbon and conduct large water change at least 50% water volume
-Make sure fish is eating
- 2 rounds of Prazipro as directed on the bottle
- Observe for 2 weeks

Scenario 2 (with 2 QT in tanks in rotation)
-Copper at therapeutic levels 14 days then transfer to sterile tank
-Make sure fish is eating well and then administer 2 rounds of prazipro as directed on the bottle
- Observe for 2 weeks

Scenario 3 (with only 1 QT tank in rotation)
-Copper at therapeutic levels 35 days
-Make sure fish is eating
-After two weeks in copper, dose 1st round of API general cure wait 5-7 days, conduct 25% water change and conduct second round wait 5-7 days (Must make sure to hold therapeutic copper levels, its not advised to mix medications but GC and copper can be combined. Have done it on many occasions without ill effects)
- Run carbon and conduct 50% water change and observe for 2 weeks

The challenge is to make sure you keep copper at therapeutic levels which means you need to pre dose medication in your fresh saltwater batches prior to adding it to the QT tank.

Check out this article.

Best Practices: 4 Step Process to Help Prevent Fish Disease Outbreaks

This article highlights on establishing a 4-step streamlined process that in my experience has proven to be beneficial in preventing fish disease outbreaks.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Pau Hana Reefer]

Agreed. I see visible ich spots on the fish. You're most likely dealing with both but its best to treat the worst of the two evils first. Copper treatment will help suppress flukes buying you time to treat the ich parasite and you can finish with 2 rounds of Prazipro.

Scenario 1 (with only 1 QT tank in rotation)
-Copper at therapeutic levels 35 days
-Add carbon and conduct large water change at least 50% water volume
-Make sure fish is eating
- 2 rounds of Prazipro as directed on the bottle
- Observe for 2 weeks

Scenario 2 (with 2 QT in tanks in rotation)
-Copper at therapeutic levels 14 days then transfer to sterile tank
-Make sure fish is eating well and then administer 2 rounds of prazipro as directed on the bottle
- Observe for 2 weeks

Scenario 3 (with only 1 QT tank in rotation)
-Copper at therapeutic levels 35 days
-Make sure fish is eating
-After two weeks in copper, dose 1st round of API general cure wait 5-7 days, conduct 25% water change and conduct second round wait 5-7 days (Must make sure to hold therapeutic copper levels, its not advised to mix medications but GC and copper can be combined. Have done it on many occasions without ill effects)
- Run carbon and conduct 50% water change and observe for 2 weeks

The challenge is to make sure you keep copper at therapeutic levels which means you need to pre dose medication in your fresh saltwater batches prior to adding it to the QT tank.

Check out this article.

Best Practices: 4 Step Process to Help Prevent Fish Disease Outbreaks

This article highlights on establishing a 4-step streamlined process that in my experience has proven to be beneficial in preventing fish disease outbreaks.

www.reef2reef.com

This is incredibly helpful. Since I only have one QT, I'm going to go with the first option that it provided. Thank you, I really appreciate your help!

This experience has really shown me the value of having a QT. Not to mention, having R2R community to help out.

 

[MERKEY]

Not sure if you can get a 10g from petco on their dollar sale right now but you could also use the TTM which doesnt involve copper and is only 14 days which also treats for ich and flukes.

Just a thought for a copper free approach.

Good luck and I'm following for success.

 

[Pau Hana Reefer]

I considered a 10 gallon but I already think the 20 gallon he's in is slightly too small. I have a 1.5" yellow coris wrasse in my 10 gallon QT right now. Wife probably won't be too happy if I get another tank. Lol.

I'll def be sure to share some updates over the next month.

 

[Pau Hana Reefer]

Is it possible for ich to reappear after hitting therapeutic level of Copper Power?

I started ramping up Copper Power on Friday night (got knocked of my feet a few days with the flu). I was adding 3 ml in the AM and then 3 ml in the PM over the weekend. I reached therapeutic level with last night or this morning’s dose. Tonight, I saw new white spots on my fish.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

The spots aren't actually the ich but the cyst from the injection site of the parasite. Keeping in mind ich remains on the fish for 3-7 days before dropping off into a free swimming stage and this is where copper is effective against them.

 

[Pau Hana Reefer]

The spots aren't actually the ich but the cyst from the injection site of the parasite. Keeping in mind ich remains on the fish for 3-7 days before dropping off into a free swimming stage and this is where copper is effective against them.

Aha, got it! Thanks @pathot984!

This mini journey with ich has been really educational. More updates (and perhaps a question or two... or fifty lol) to come over the next 50 days.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Good-luck! Keep us posted

 

[Pau Hana Reefer]

As mentioned in other threads, the API Copper Test Kit just doesn't cut it. I knew I was somewhere between 1.0 ppm and 2.0 ppm, and guessed that I was somewhere close to 2.0 ppm on Tuesday night. That just wasn't going to cut it for me, so I paid the $49.99 and got myself the Hanna Copper Colorimeter. Got a reading of 1.88 ppm last night.

I'm going to run copper through February 29th, which will be 35 days from yesterday and about 39-40 days at therapeutic levels.

I also stopped by TSM Aquatics over the weekend and even though I didn't buy this fish from there, the co-owner provided me a lot of help with the quarantine process and reiterated a lot of the suggestions provided by everyone here.

There haven't been any additional white spots since last Monday. But the foxface still hasn't shown the vibrant yellow color he had when he first arrived and his two spots are really faded.

 

[Kenneth Hooper]

Not sure if you can get a 10g from petco on their dollar sale right now but you could also use the TTM which doesnt involve copper and is only 14 days which also treats for ich and flukes.
/QUOTE]
What is TTM?

 

[Pau Hana Reefer]

Tank Transfer Method. Here's a nice thread that I used to learn about it... https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

 

[Kenneth Hooper]

Tank Transfer Method. Here's a nice thread that I used to learn about it... https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

Thank you

 

[Keaton3100]

I am also having issues with what I believe to be ich, but I am new to the hobby and just starting my first saltwater tank, so I am definitely no expert. I’ve lost a clownfish and a six line wrasse so far, and now my other two clownfish have looked pretty sick for about a week. Could someone tell me if it does indeed look like ich?

 

[Qasimja]

I am also having issues with what I believe to be ich, but I am new to the hobby and just starting my first saltwater tank, so I am definitely no expert. I’ve lost a clownfish and a six line wrasse so far, and now my other two clownfish have looked pretty sick for about a week. Could someone tell me if it does indeed look like ich?

that looks like either velvet or brook you have to treat them in a hurry it kills quick treat them in a QT tank with copper and metroplex to rule out both