Help! Fox face sick

[lucas-grimm]

fox face has been through copper for 2 weeks and it didn’t eliminate ich so now is in ttm. first transfer is tomorrow. help!!

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

fox face has been through copper for 2 weeks and it didn’t eliminate ich so now is in ttm. first transfer is tomorrow. help!!

Ttm does not treat ich, it just allows you to eventually eliminate the free-floating stages of the organism and thereby break the life cycle.

I'm not sure what advice to offer for your fish but he looks very sick

 

[lucas-grimm]

Ttm does not treat ich, it just allows you to eventually eliminate the free-floating stages of the organism and thereby break the life cycle.

I'm not sure what advice to offer for your fish but he looks very sick

he’s been through multiple rounds of prazi, metroplex, copper, and now ttm and nothing seems to be working and i’m never able to get a clear answer as to what he has :/

 

[vetteguy53081]

fox face has been through copper for 2 weeks and it didn’t eliminate ich so now is in ttm. first transfer is tomorrow. help!!

Looks like viral nodules known as bacterial tufts. They look like raised bumps often looking like lympho and confused with ich. It occurs in many cases from poor water quality. I would focus on ammonia-ph-nitrate readings.
What test kits are you using?
What foods are you feeding ?

Quarantine tanks at times do not offer good gas exchange with limited filtration. Adding an airstone will help accomplish that

 

[lucas-grimm]

Looks like viral nodules known as bacterial tufts. They look like raised bumps often looking like lympho and confused with ich. It occurs in many cases from poor water quality. I would focus on ammonia-ph-nitrate readings.
What test kits are you using?
What foods are you feeding ?

Quarantine tanks at times do not offer good gas exchange with limited filtration. Adding an airstone will help accomplish that

i use salifert for mag alk and calcium, for no4 no3 and po4 i use tropic marin. i feed pe mysis and two types of flakes all of which he used to devour. there is a whisper air pump for 100 gallons in the 14 gallon tub right now running air stones. how do i try and treat this? i want to assume this is what killed most of my fish in quarantine as ammonia never is testable.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ttm does not treat ich, it just allows you to eventually eliminate the free-floating stages of the organism and thereby break the life cycle.

I'm not sure what advice to offer for your fish but he looks very sick

Although it can at times be a gamble, Tank transfer method does clear ich but for me a hassle as you have to have two separate tanks and keep moving the fish which for me is a stressor to the given fish. With TTM, you are literally outrunning the parasite’s known life cycle. For the fish infected with ich , trophonts will leave the fish at some point during the TTM process, and the encysted stage will not have enough time to release theronts which would re-infect the fish before the fish exits the initial tank.
You will have to keep making new saltwater and sterilizing each tank each 3 days period. Many like it because its chemical free, and it is very effective. I prefer quarantine.

 

[vetteguy53081]

i use salifert for mag alk and calcium, for no4 no3 and po4 i use tropic marin. i feed pe mysis and two types of flakes all of which he used to devour. there is a whisper air pump for 100 gallons in the 14 gallon tub right now running air stones. how do i try and treat this? i want to assume this is what killed most of my fish in quarantine as ammonia never is testable.

As mentioned, maintain good water quality. Diet is very minimal for this type of fish. Feed some or all of the following which are high in crude protein, fats and aminos:

-Spirulina brine shrimp
- LRS Herbivore diet
- mysis shrimp
- small plankton
- Nori seaweed basted with garlic extract
- Hikari Marine cuisine
- Formula 2 flake and frozen
- Hikari veggie marine

Add selcon vitamins to the foods 2-3X per week and on alternating days, garlic extract for stamina and immunity health

 

[lucas-grimm]

As mentioned, maintain good water quality. Diet is very minimal for this type of fish. Feed some or all of the following which are high in crude protein, fats and aminos:

-Spirulina brine shrimp
- LRS Herbivore diet
- mysis shrimp
- small plankton
- Nori seaweed basted with garlic extract
- Hikari Marine cuisine
- Formula 2 flake and frozen
- Hikari veggie marine

Add selcon vitamins to the foods 2-3X per week and on alternating days, garlic extract for stamina and immunity health

should i continue ttm? as of right now i am to dose prazipro today, transfer tomorrow, and then continue to transfer for another 10 days or so

 

[vetteguy53081]

should i continue ttm? as of right now i am to dose prazipro today, transfer tomorrow, and then continue to transfer for another 10 days or so

One thing I can say regarding your question. . . a stated- water quality. TTM will assure water ic lean as by the time you hit each day three, the fish is in a clean environment and some of those bumps should fall off. If any contain worms, Prazi will eliminate that also. Do be aware, prazi does reduce both oxygen and appetite, so add an airstone to each tank

 

[lucas-grimm]

One thing I can say regarding your question. . . a stated- water quality. TTM will assure water ic lean as by the time you hit each day three, the fish is in a clean environment and some of those bumps should fall off. If any contain worms, Prazi will eliminate that also. Do be aware, prazi does reduce both oxygen and appetite, so add an airstone to each tank

is it plausible to do a transfer now, even though it’s only been two days? i planned on doing extra transfers at the end. but i think lympho is the most urgent thing to deal with right now as he’s not eating. i was dosing prazi for black ich.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

should i continue ttm? as of right now i am to dose prazipro today, transfer tomorrow, and then continue to transfer for another 10 days or so

Can you post a short video of the fish? From the angle in the picture, those spots are too large to be ich.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Can you post a short video of the fish? From the angle in the picture, those spots are too large to be ich.

Jay

Agree

 

[lucas-grimm]

Can you post a short video of the fish? From the angle in the picture, those spots are too large to be ich.

Jay

 

[lucas-grimm]

Can you post a short video of the fish? From the angle in the picture, those spots are too large to be ich.

Jay

https://youtube.com/shorts/sVv2FAD54UY?feature=share not sure if the video posted on here

 

[lucas-grimm]

Agree

Foxface

youtube.com

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

https://youtube.com/shorts/sVv2FAD54UY?feature=share not sure if the video posted on here

That worked. Here is where it gets tricky - the spots still look a big large, but with the cloudy fin and eyes, it could be end stage ich. The trouble is, changing an ich treatment delays things about 3 days and this fish may not last that long.
TTM might work, hyposalinity would as well. My guess is your copper treatment was too short and you may not have been at a full dose…the margin of error is prett small.
Jay

 

[Miami Reef]

Ouch. That fish definitely looks rough.

What copper did you use?

What level was it maintained and what test kit did you use to check it?

Did you transfer the fish to a sterile tank with sterilized heaters, air stones etc after the 2 week copper?

Did the fish look better during the 14 day copper treatment, but then get worse following it, or was it looking this bad the entire duration?

 

[lucas-grimm]

That worked. Here is where it gets tricky - the spots still look a big large, but with the cloudy fin and eyes, it could be end stage ich. The trouble is, changing an ich treatment delays things about 3 days and this fish may not last that long.
TTM might work, hyposalinity would as well. My guess is your copper treatment was too short and you may not have been at a full dose…the margin of error is prett small.
Jay

i’ll take it as still ich then and continue ttm and hope he magically pulls through, weird how he was affected so much worse than the other fish. thanks for your help

 

[lucas-grimm]

Ouch. That fish definitely looks rough.

What copper did you use?

What level was it maintained and what test kit did you use to check it?

Did you transfer the fish to a sterile tank with sterilized heaters, air stones etc after the 2 week copper?

Did the fish look better during the 14 day copper treatment, but then get worse following it, or was it looking this bad the entire duration?

copper power at 2.2-2.5 ppm testing with the hanna checker once a day, never went below that and ended up losing a few fish in the copper that appeared to be burned by it. he was eating the entire time and did look better but was still visibly stressed. still had some spots after copper so started ttm which is where i am now

 

[Miami Reef]

I really don’t think it’s ich. Foxfaces develop a protein in their slime coat which makes them resistant to ich: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1050464810000197

You already treated for velvet and ich with the copper. It’s unlikely for them to get this rampant after that treatment.

I personally think he’s having a viral/bacterial infection. And you said you treated with prazipro a few times? That should take care of any eye flukes as well.


This is definitely one of the most weirdest cases I’ve seen. Definitely take my advice with a grain of salt because I’ve personally never experienced this type of issue on any of my fish, nor have I seen this type of case on the forums.