Help getting 2 part dosing straight

Spdjnky · May 23, 2018

No it's a Jebao dosing pump and I have it calabrated right have rechecked it

RobZilla04 · May 23, 2018

reeferfoxx said:
I disagree with this. A proper 2 part will have Ca and Alk consumption at the same rate. The only time you have to dose one or the other is if the water change is significantly different in parameter compared to the tank or two different concentrations of 2 part.

I do agree that a proper 2 part, used in conjunction with a salt mix which mirrors desired tank parameters will result in equal dosing rates. The issue here is the differences between the target values, salt mix parameters, and an unknown consumption rate by the OP. This is why many of us advise shooting for a stability within a smaller range, than simply the acceptable 380-450 ppm Cal for example, due to margin of errors in test kits. Not to mention all the other variables such as salinity, temp, pH, etc that all come into play.

For this OP, I would advise getting Cal as close to 440 as he can, note his salinity/SG, then maintain between 420 and 460.

Spdjnky · May 23, 2018

I hear you there about that and am trying to learn everything I do know my PH is always around 7.9/8 But yea I'm trying to do all that.
Like I said earlier as far as things go I have just added 4 new corals and have more coming so I really need to get this down without to much swings in all the parameters. Trying my best not to rock the boat...lol

reeferfoxx · May 23, 2018

RobZilla04 said:
I do agree that a proper 2 part, used in conjunction with a salt mix which mirrors desired tank parameters will result in equal consumption rates.

This sort of solves everything and is a simple resolution to succeeding in the hobby. Test your water change water prior to use, dose accordingly. There shouldn't have to be any dosing deviations because of a water change. Now, if the alk is higher than the tank, then use different salt.

RobZilla04 said:
due to margin of errors in test kits.

I get this. I just hope you arent insinuating that every test being made with his test kit, isn't constantly changing. Doesn't matter the test kit, the titration solutions don't change between tests. The only error would be human error.

@Spdjnky Can you post which test kits you have for each parameter and the type of device you use to measure salinity? Maybe something else is off.

Ultimately, equal dosings for the tank.

Spdjnky · May 23, 2018

Right now I'm using Hana for Alk. I have the standard and am very confident with the readings I am getting and yes the new sw mix has the Alk lower but that does not bother me and is no problem to raise up to match the aquarium at the time I need it.
Calcium I am using Red Sea test kit an have used enough where I am confident in it.
I do know that with the Hana you have to be spot on clean no fingerprints on the cuvette
and yes the human part that's the one you need to watch and again that's why I am going slow this morning to avoid those human error's I hope

RobZilla04 · May 23, 2018

Spdjnky said:
I hear you there about that and am trying to learn everything I do know my PH is always around 7.9/8 But yea I'm trying to do all that.
Like I said earlier as far as things go I have just added 4 new corals and have more coming so I really need to get this down without to much swings in all the parameters. Trying my best not to rock the boat...lol

Don't even start with the pH. Just throw the test kit away. Not worth the headache and it doesn't make a diff to the general hobbyist.

reeferfoxx said:
This sort of solves everything and is a simple resolution to succeeding in the hobby. Test your water change water prior to use, dose accordingly. There shouldn't have to be any dosing deviations because of a water change. Now, if the alk is higher than the tank, then use different salt.

I get this. I just hope you arent insinuating that every test being made with his test kit, isn't constantly changing. Doesn't matter the test kit, the titration solutions don't change between tests. The only error would be human error.

@Spdjnky Can you post which test kits you have for each parameter and the type of device you use to measure salinity? Maybe something else is off.

Ultimately, equal dosings for the tank.

Simple solutions to succeeding in the hobby I have found make ppl happy. Take for example the Hanna Calcium Checker (among the most widely used) with an accuracy of +-6%. Lets remove human error completely (probably shouldn't since you gotta get all that reagent 2 powder into the vial and we are using syringes that are far from scientifically accurate) that leaves a 440 test result somewhere in the ballpark of 414-466ppm (rounded to the nearest whole number). Back to an earlier note mentioning salinity/SG, temp, and other variables, anyone who truly believes they can achieve and maintain a Calcium level of exactly 440 using hobby grade test kits and equipment is insane.

I believe we are trying to say the same thing, just going about it in different ways.

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 23, 2018

Spdjnky said:
Okay what way should I go? I am going to test again right now it's been about an hour sense I dosed then I will post #'s. I am using the red sea blue bucket and my Mag is staying at 1300 I have tested the Cal in a new mix of sw and it's 400 ppm the new sw mix also tests 8.1 dKH for Alk. so i make the alk match the tank water when I do a wc like I did Monday

What salinity? Raising it a bit may be the rest way to hit the target with that mix.

reeferfoxx · May 23, 2018

RobZilla04 said:
I believe we are trying to say the same thing, just going about it in different ways.

Yes we are. The number doesn't matter (well it does) as long as its consistent between tests. If you test 440 and your accuracy is off +/-6%, that still keeps you in a safe range. If you test again back to back, the number should be the same. So if you are dosing or auto dosing, whatever change happens will reflect on that test kit. The overall accuracy isn't important... for calcium..

Spdjnky · May 23, 2018

There u go, I said I was shooting for 9 dKh and 440 ppm If I can have them stay around there like is I wide up with 8.8 and 435 today thats great as long as i can learn how to keep them and for that mater all my tests consistent without big swings one way or the other that's whar]\t we want right

reeferfoxx · May 23, 2018

Spdjnky said:
There u go, I said I was shooting for 9 dKh and 440 ppm If I can have them stay around there like is I wide up with 8.8 and 435 today thats great as long as i can learn how to keep them and for that mater all my tests consistent without big swings one way or the other that's whar]\t we want right

Yes and with an autodoser, I find that dispersing the dose over a 24 hour period keeps numbers the same no matter what time I test. Though I have a nano, my daily dosing is 10mL equal parts. So, it's dispersed at a rate of 1mL every 2.24 hours.

Spdjnky · May 23, 2018

This Morning still not sure of things I dosed 48 ml's for Alk which brought it up to 8.8 dKH I dosed 150ml for cal and it went no where in fact I forgot I checked at 410 this morning thought that was allot to drop from last night thats why I going slow
anyways I dosed 50 ml's more and will retest here in a hour but that will still be less than 230 ml's that it was last night. It will be a total of 200ml's this morning
check back in an hour
So at 9 am my Alk was 8.8 dKH now it's 8.6 dKH
My Calcium was 410 ppm this morning after 200ml it's now 415 ppm
I have to remember last nite when cal was 425 this what BRS cal told me Liquid Calcium Chloride 230ml
So far I have added 200 ml
Now what because the Alk is going to keep dropping right

RobZilla04 · May 23, 2018

You aren't going to be able to get an accurate consumption rate if you are continuing to dose while trying to calculate!

You're numbers are where you want them so stop dosing. Wait two or three days (three or four would be best) before retesting. Take the differences between the tests and divide by the number of days. Boost the levels back to the desired level and begin dosing based on the consumption rate.

Really rather simple.

Edit: I guess you could continue to dose your current schedule and simply add to the dosing volume based on consumption above what you are dosing to replenish. This method may lead to additional headaches while trying to "dial" them in at the same time.

Bayareareefer18 · May 23, 2018

Following along here.

Why not keep things simple and maintain numbers at what your fresh salt mix is? That way you are not throwing off your chemistry with water change or having to make major adjustments to your fresh salt mix

RobZilla04 · May 23, 2018

Bayareareefer18 said:
Following along here.

Why not keep things simple and maintain numbers at what your fresh salt mix is? That way you are not throwing off your chemistry with water change or having to make major adjustments to your fresh salt mix

This is highly advised. Either pick a salt mix based on the parameters you want, or maintain parameters to match your salt mix.

In either case dosing comes into the equation when consumption rates increase beyond what can be replenished through desired water change frequency.

Spdjnky · May 23, 2018

RobZilla04 said:
You aren't going to be able to get an accurate consumption rate if you are continuing to dose while trying to calculate!

You're numbers are where you want them so stop dosing. Wait two or three days (three or four would be best) before retesting. Take the differences between the tests and divide by the number of days. Boost the levels back to the desired level and begin dosing based on the consumption rate.

Really rather simple.

Edit: I guess you could continue to dose your current schedule and simply add to the dosing volume based on consumption above what you are dosing to replenish. This method may lead to additional headaches while trying to "dial" them in at the same time.

Today I am just wanting to get to my original #'s that I thought I would like to stay at for starters. That being said are they what are going to be what I try to maintain yes that's the goal. But what you said is right too but if after say I wind up at 8.9 and 435 this afternoon I will stop there Not going to try to be perfect just want to get it to the point where I can be confident that testing once a week will be okay.

Spdjnky · May 23, 2018

Spdjnky said:
This Morning still not sure of things I dosed 48 ml's for Alk which brought it up to 8.8 dKH I dosed 150ml for cal and it went no where in fact I forgot I checked at 410 this morning thought that was allot to drop from last night thats why I going slow
anyways I dosed 50 ml's more and will retest here in a hour but that will still be less than 230 ml's that it was last night. It will be a total of 200ml's this morning
check back in an hour

Bayareareefer18 said:
Why not keep things simple and maintain numbers at what your fresh salt mix is? That way you are not throwing off your chemistry with water change or having to make major adjustments to your fresh salt mix

My new sw is cal 390 ppm @1.025 did not test today but have in the past Alk runs 7.9 dKH Oh Mag 1300

RobertP · May 23, 2018

I went through some of the same headaches when I started dosing 2 part. The best advice I got was set your target parameters to your freshly mixed saltwater!!!! I use Red Sea blue bucket at 35 and it is right in the range for what I wanted. This way if something bad happened you could mix up a lot of water and dump it in without worrying as much about getting it up to your level. Of course different salts are different so find one that matches your target if you like.

I agree with the other guys, check your alk daily until you find the right amount. Once I found the correct setting I set BOTH alk and calcium to the same amounts per day. Then weekly I checked calcium and if it need a change I would make it then to the dosing and maybe a manual dose. My dosing started out consuming less calcium than alk but now it is the other way around...but we are only talking about 10ml difference per day so I dont worry about it.

Spdjnky · May 23, 2018

RobZilla04 said:
This is highly advised. Either pick a salt mix based on the parameters you want, or maintain parameters to match your salt mix.

In either case dosing comes into the equation when consumption rates increase beyond what can be replenished through desired water change frequency.

I hear you in fact Tyler from BRS told me that and to be honest I don't know if 440 ppm is better than 420 ppm. I am pretty sure that having the Alkalinity higher promotes faster coral growth or at least my reading on the subject is enough of a reason for me to start there.
But all and all I new and just learning dam awhile back when I saw all the snails in my aquarium start ticking at once.... you know the water gets all cloudy dam the first time I saw that I freaked out..lol