Help - GFCI keeps tripping
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PhreeByrd
Active Member
It's not that old. The labeling on the back references NEC 2008.
Weather-resistant GFCI's are made for outdoor use. They are not required or even advantageous for any indoor use, even in proximity to typical sources of water (sinks, tubs, showers, etc.). 'Wet location' and 'damp location' are defined by the NEC, and the terms don't apply to your living room unless you happen to have a swimming pool in the middle of it.
Airborne salt mist can mess with any receptacle. That obviously isn't the main problem for the OP, since his new GFCI also tripped. But in any case, a weather-resistant receptacle will not help with that, either.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
I agree. I don't see any reason to use weather-resistant receptacles on a reef tank. Per the NEC they are only weather resistant when used with an outdoor cover such as this one.
I don't have room for something that bulky under or behind my tank.
alton
Valuable Member
Brew I have a few city inspectors that would disagree, they require WR in all damp locations like kitchens. Our aquarium cabinets can build up a lot of moisture. I don't use a weather proof cover, but why not spend a few dollars more on a GFCI that is rated for a damp/wet location? I still believe in having multiple GFCI's, one for return pump, one for heater, and one for everything else.
PhreeByrd
Active Member
Again, a kitchen is not a damp location by NEC definition.
But I'd agree that it's not going to hurt anything to use WR-rated receptacles indoors. I just don't think it's worth the expense or effort to replace existing receptacles with WR receptacles.
But I'd agree that it's not going to hurt anything to use WR-rated receptacles indoors. I just don't think it's worth the expense or effort to replace existing receptacles with WR receptacles.
siggy
My Aquariums Going Again
A quality device is my standard period. Pay now or later. FWIW I have had several people ask me to fix outdoor receptacles Or to find the problem. And the first thing I tell them is to change the device then get back if you still need help. The cheap stuff does not hold up (damp/humid) and even the good stuff will need to be replaced eventually in that environment.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
I can only speak towards the NEC, cities are allowed to deviate from the NEC for their inspections. It is very possible that in your city they define a kitchen as a damp location and require a WR receptacle there.
Per the NEC, damp and wet locations are all outdoors. If it is outdoors and protected from weather it is damp. If it is outdoors and exposed to weather, it is wet. Nothing wrong with using a WR receptacle for a tank although the UV protection, cold protection, and corrosion protection likely won't help much with a high salt environment. A damp location requires that outlets need to have covers installed that make them weather tight when not in use. Wet locations are required to have covers that protect from rain/snow while in use. But again, your specific city may have a different requirements.
Absolutely agree with this. I would never run my entire system on a single GFCI. I have one GFCI protecting a controller power bar that has my gyres and one heater on it. I have a 2nd GFCI that has a heater and my return pump on it. This way a single GFCI tripping will not result in a loss of all flow in my DT.
In my opinion, if you want something better than a regular outlet, get one rated WR/Heavy Industrial. These are what would be installed on docks and ships to help provide a better layer of corrosion resistance than standard WR.
alton
Valuable Member
Brew we have a few inspectors in and around San Antonio they love to use the "Person Having Jurisdiction" rule and they continue to remind us that the NEC is the minimum code. I sent the pictures of the receptacle to my Leviton rep and he stated 2011 by the markings. FYI when I had an enclosed cabinet I ran a fan 24/7 to keep the moisture down, just like when I had canopy, I ran one of the two cooling fans 24/7 so not to build up moisture on the lamps and sockets. Moisture and salt creep do not mix well with electricity.
zbryant91
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I'm starting to wonder if my new sump is creating more of a moisture "Zone" around the outlet and causing the issue. My outlet is behind the left side of the cabinet and my new sump sits ~<6" from the outlet. old sump sat on the right side of the cabinet so there was more of a open area in front of the outlet. Still I would think that wouldn't cause it to trip considering if you take a hot shower with gfci's in the bathroom all the steam never trips those...
Anyways, Went and bought the gfci adapter today that Brew suggested; So I am going to start testing equipment 1 by 1 till I get a trip and see what happens. I think I am also going to install a gfci at the outlet about 10 feet away that is behind the couch and split some of my equipment between the 2 to try and speed up the process.
Will keep this updated I as figure things out..
Anyways, Went and bought the gfci adapter today that Brew suggested; So I am going to start testing equipment 1 by 1 till I get a trip and see what happens. I think I am also going to install a gfci at the outlet about 10 feet away that is behind the couch and split some of my equipment between the 2 to try and speed up the process.
Will keep this updated I as figure things out..
Brew12
Electrical Gru
You can always use the portable unit and an extension cord to split the loads in half and begin testing that way.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Another option would be to use a regular outlet at the wall, plug the power strip into it, and create controllable independent outlet pairs. I did this on my first build.
The 4 cords you see plugged into the Apex power the 4 outlet pairs. I had 2 heaters, 1 return pump, and my skimmer plugged into the 4 controlled outlets. My powerheads were MP-40's so the motors were outside the tank, hence no GFCI on those. I show how to make them here.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-gfci-installation.342874/
I have too many pieces of submerged equipment now, so I have them split between just the two outlets.
zbryant91
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I like that idea. This is going to be my second EB8 so I will run it off another outlet and split the equipment to narrow it down. Definitely will give this idea some more thought. Also picked up a 12v power supply to run the apex and detect when I loose power So I can get notified faster...
zbryant91
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Alright, so I think I have a result already. Got home and mounted the EB8 and moved all the power heads plus the sump light over to it as I expected 1 of these to be the culprit. Plugged the new EB8 into the portable GFCI I bought this afternoon and the apex was acting funny so I did a power cycle on everything an low an behold the new gfci trips immediately. plug everything on that powerbar in 1 at a time until I find that one of my hydor powerheads makes it trip every time I reset.
Now I have no idea why the portable one is able to catch it immediately and the in wall outlet does not. But leaving that 1 powerhead unplugged is allowing everything to stay running. @Brew12 any ideas why this is?
will have to wait a couple days to see if anything else trips but I am optimistic that was it.
Now I have no idea why the portable one is able to catch it immediately and the in wall outlet does not. But leaving that 1 powerhead unplugged is allowing everything to stay running. @Brew12 any ideas why this is?
will have to wait a couple days to see if anything else trips but I am optimistic that was it.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
I would only be guessing at this point but I'll tell you my opinion. It sounds like the issue may not be a ground fault but that you have motor windings shorted together. When this happens, the motor will generate more harmonics than normal. These harmonics are not supposed to generate a GFCI trip but they often do. This was a serious problem with early GFCI units. To help prevent this, they add filters to GFCI to try and shunt away anything other than the primary and 2nd harmonics from the sensor (60hz and 120hz). The units in the wall tend to have better filters than the portable ones.
I would plan on replacing the powerhead either way as failure in the near term would be likely. It could also feed harmonics back into your houses electrical system that could interfere with electronics.
EuroDriver
Active Member
Allow me to share my story with you…
I have GFCI outlets installed inside my aquarium cabinet on my 180 DT - 4 outlets per side. Last summer, one of them started tripping every time I connected something to one of the unoccupied outlets. I got lazy and moved most of my connections over to the other side. The only ting I left plugged in were the 2 PC4s for my Reefkeeper controller. Then the right side started tripping.
The electrician told me the outlets looked kind of old and they do wear out so he suggested changing them out which I agreed to. He also mentioned that he thought it was unusually humid down there and suggested I implement some ventilation. Since I have an open 60 gallon sump down there, I figured that was the source but I ran a fan in there for a couple of days just in case.
After changing out all the GFCI outlets, all seemed fine and dandy for about a week or so and then they all started tripping with more frequency - more so on the left again. I called the electrician again and scheduled the him to come back out over the weekend. He was already talking a circuit overload and having to add a new circuit from the main breaker outside. But before he could get there, one of my PC4s died. I figured "Ha! found te culprit! In the intervening time, I crawled into the cabinet to disconnect the PC4s and figure how I was going to re-wire everything while I ordered a new one when, while lying down there… a drop of water lands on my face!
I had a super slow leak on one of my drain bulkheads that was so slow, it wasn't even leaving a wet spot. I guess it would evaporate out before the next drop contributed to a puddle. Nevertheless it managed to create sufficient havoc. I fixed the leak and haven't had a single problem since.
Moral of the story is that if your GFCIs are tripping, they're telling you something - there's a very good reason they're tripping. Since you also installed new ones, check very closely. In my case, it was pure luck I was down there at the right time and place, otherwise who knows how much I would have spent while I kept cracking my noggin against the proverbial wall.
I have GFCI outlets installed inside my aquarium cabinet on my 180 DT - 4 outlets per side. Last summer, one of them started tripping every time I connected something to one of the unoccupied outlets. I got lazy and moved most of my connections over to the other side. The only ting I left plugged in were the 2 PC4s for my Reefkeeper controller. Then the right side started tripping.
The electrician told me the outlets looked kind of old and they do wear out so he suggested changing them out which I agreed to. He also mentioned that he thought it was unusually humid down there and suggested I implement some ventilation. Since I have an open 60 gallon sump down there, I figured that was the source but I ran a fan in there for a couple of days just in case.
After changing out all the GFCI outlets, all seemed fine and dandy for about a week or so and then they all started tripping with more frequency - more so on the left again. I called the electrician again and scheduled the him to come back out over the weekend. He was already talking a circuit overload and having to add a new circuit from the main breaker outside. But before he could get there, one of my PC4s died. I figured "Ha! found te culprit! In the intervening time, I crawled into the cabinet to disconnect the PC4s and figure how I was going to re-wire everything while I ordered a new one when, while lying down there… a drop of water lands on my face!
I had a super slow leak on one of my drain bulkheads that was so slow, it wasn't even leaving a wet spot. I guess it would evaporate out before the next drop contributed to a puddle. Nevertheless it managed to create sufficient havoc. I fixed the leak and haven't had a single problem since.
Moral of the story is that if your GFCIs are tripping, they're telling you something - there's a very good reason they're tripping. Since you also installed new ones, check very closely. In my case, it was pure luck I was down there at the right time and place, otherwise who knows how much I would have spent while I kept cracking my noggin against the proverbial wall.
zbryant91
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Gotcha. Yea I assumed there was a leak the 1st couple times because I redid the pvc runs for the overflow and return pump but never felt water when they tripped. Very glad the portable gfci was able to detect a bad pump so hopefully now I am good to just run and enjoy the new setup.
Randy Ruiz
Community Member
I got frustrated at gfi tripping. So stopped using it. Never any issues. With new upgrade paid electrician to come in & put a dedicated circuit for the tank.
Not going with gfi on this setup either.
Not going with gfi on this setup either.
